aftermarket table saw fence

[Alexfn]

hi guys,
first post on the forum for maybe a year or so, ive been really busy the last couple of years and not doing much in my workshop but this month been brushing off the cobwebs so probably be a few posts

first one is for advice on an aftermarket table saw fence, i have a FOX F36-529 i picked up a few years ago for a good price, record power sold the same saw it had mixed reviews but with some messing around i have it running fine, all parallel and im happy with it bar the fence, its crap to be honest, its really frustrating to work with, every time i set it it moves, meaning i can spend 5 mins or so setting up each cut using the fence, i really want to fit a new fence with a micro adjust,

heres the problem, nobody seems to sell a fence in the uk? i can see lots in america but they either dont ship here or shipping is more than the fence. so does anyone know of a company selling good fences in the uk? any help. links or even anyone selling one second hand would be great

thanks

 

[Nick.]

Hi Alexfn

Charnwood do a decent aftermarket saw fence for £60 - It's solid and a very good seller for them. No micro adjust, but maybe you could modify to include that?

https://www.charnwood.net/products/prod ... athway-224

Or take a look at the Incra systems sold by Peter Sefton - they are top notch quality

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... 0mm-metric

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Nick

 

[Alexfn]

Hi Alexfn

Charnwood do a decent aftermarket saw fence for £60 - It's solid and a very good seller for them. No micro adjust, but maybe you could modify to include that?

https://www.charnwood.net/products/prod ... athway-224

Or take a look at the Incra systems sold by Peter Sefton - they are top notch quality

https://woodworkersworkshop.co.uk/produ ... 0mm-metric

Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Nick

hi nick thanks for your reply, , the charnwood looks ok but not sturdy enough, i really prefer a fence that fixes back and front, the incra is tool **** but wayyyy over budget, for that money i think i would just buy a new saw, was thinking a budget of 250ish should have probably mentioned that

 

[Eric The Viking]

I looked at an Axminster "de luxe" bandsaw fence to upgrade my bandsaw. In the end I bought two, the second one to do the TS200 as well (my TS200 is a "bitza", and one thing missing was the fence). It's this one: https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-d ... ade-102426

You can use the fence either flat or vertical. As one task I want it for is separating the lids of boxes (and possibly cutting tenons), the height is handy. The carriage has a flat surface, and it's easy to clamp different extrusions to it instead (I have some to use). So you can in theory have whatever height or cross section shape you want. And since the mounting is simply a heavy bolt with a Bristol lever, you could contrive others as necessary.

Issues:

1. The guide rail is not very long (740mm). If you only use it on one side, that's OK, and fine for a bandsaw, but might be an issue for a table saw if you want to do sheet goods (I don't).

2. The second rail (back one) is just a support. As supplied, the fence doesn't clamp to it, but rests on it, on a nylon slider. I've contrived a different mounting for the bandsaw, so that I can raise or lower the rail, eventually to have a clamp. It is very rigid anyway, so this won't be an issue with the tablesaw, as there shouldn't be any sideways pressure beyond the blade's leading edge.

3. All fittings for this fence are US-Imperial threads. This is irritating. Much as I like imperial threads, I don't carry a lot of stock of bolts, handwheels etc., so it is a nuisance for modifications, clamp-on bits, etc. I have yet to use them (still modding the bandsaw between times), so not yet sure how much of a nuisance this will be in practice.

4. I think the mountings are a bit clumsy, but they are simply L-shaped brackets, so you could contrive whateveer you need within reason.

There seem to be a lot out there. I simply mention this one because I"m pleased with my purchase. One caveat though: Axminster put the price up significantly, shortly after I bought mine, so I don't think it's quite the bargain it was. I suspect you might find the same one elsewhere though, branded differently (it's undoubtedly from China).

Hope that's useful...

E.

 

[Jacob]

....i really prefer a fence that fixes back and front, .....

I've always supported the far end of the fence with just a lath up against it and a G clamp. You don't need to fix the fence down, just to stop it being pushed sideways and out of alignment.

 

[Steve Maskery]

A fence that clamps just at the front is better than one that also clamps at the back, as the 3-point mechanism is self-aligning. Fence that clamp across the front and back have a tendency to pull out of square. The only reason they are built like that is to try to stiffen up something which is too flimsy to start with. My first TS was like that, so I know what they can be like.

I built and upgraded fence when I did my TS DVDs, and I know that one or two people here on this forum have built it:
post1168009.html#p1168009

Here it is, fitted with a fine adjuster short fence:
post1169545.html#p1169545

The most expensive part was the toggle clamp, but they are available considerably more cheaply now than they were then. The steel and nuts and bolts were about £20, IIRC. You only need to be able to cut, drill and tap, there is no welding to do (though at least one person on here did weld his).

It slides smoothly and locks rock steady, every bit as well as the original Xcalibur fence does.

The only thing I would do differently would be to use bigger box section for the fence itself. I used 50w x 25h, and it would have been better to use 50w x 75h. Other than that I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[MikeJhn]

A fence that clamps just at the front is better than one that also clamps at the back, as the 3-point mechanism is self-aligning. Fence that clamp across the front and back have a tendency to pull out of square. The only reason they are built like that is to try to stiffen up something which is too flimsy to start with. My first TS was like that, so I know what they can be like.

That's not strictly true, if the rear aligning point of the fence against the table is a bearing the fence will clamp square, shortest distance between two points and all that.

Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

In theory, yes, but in practice it's not like that.

It's a big IF. Those kind of fence are only found on the cheaper entry level machines, you won't find them on good pro machines. That should tell us something.
Show me a budget machine, with a front-and-back fastening, that has a bearing at the rear and which always locks square, without fail.

If you can do that, I shall be quite happy to eat humble pie.

Otherwise, I refer you to my previous post, m'lud.

 

[MikeJhn]

So in practice the distance between two points is not a straight line, all it tells me is that those cheaper entry level machines have a straight fence, pulled straight by the overlock cam and bearing and you can't get away from that no matter how many examples you give, you can't change the law of Physics.

Munch away.

Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

Mike, you are ignoring FRICTION.
Please, please do show me a fence with the bearing you describe. Give me a link.
Those fences are not pulled perpendicular to the rail! I, and many other frustrated woodies know that!
I am talking about reality, not theoretical, perfect, physics. In practice, fences like that do not always clamp squarely, because they are neither well designed nor well built. That's why the real machines are not fitted with them.
S

 

[MikeJhn]

Well this Woody has a machine, which by your definition is not real? Has a bearing on the far end of the fence and pulls itself perfectly into alinement every time I use it, this is reality. And referring back to your first post, it is not built like that because the fence is flimsy in fact its a bigger section than your own fence?

The overhead guard is missing from the pic for clarity.

Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well I must admit that that does look better-made than any other of that kind that I have seen, so perhaps I need to change my attitude a bit. What brand is it?

How do you get on with those JessEm thingies? I've always thought that they were very well engineered, quite expensive for what they are and better suited to a router table. Don't they get in the way of your push stick and guard? How do you mount your guard?

Questions, questions.

 

[MikeJhn]

Its the standard fence that comes with the Axminster TS250-2 kit, the standard fence is not as good only if you buy the extension table do you get that one.

The JessEm thingies are excellent and I don't seem to have any problems with a push stick or block, I also have them on my Router table and can equally say I would not be without them, they alleviate a lot of problems I have with my Arthritic hands.

My overhead guard is mounted as the below pic's show.

Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

So your guard is supported on a floor post, is it?
Mine is mounted on the far RH corner of my back rail and supported by a shoe on my fence. It's always interesting to see how other people are set up.
I could do with sorting mine out with OH DX as well. Mine just falls inside the cabinet and I don't clean it out as often as I should.

 

[Jacob]

I must say I'm not impressed by these remotely mounted guards. I see no reason for not having a riving knife mounted crown guard as default standard. Simplest, always in line with the blade, sturdy - resistant to stuff being kicked up and stuff being dropped on accidentally, in-line hence not thrown off if it snags the blade.

 

[MikeJhn]

So your guard is supported on a floor post, is it?
Mine is mounted on the far RH corner of my back rail and supported by a shoe on my fence. It's always interesting to see how other people are set up.
I could do with sorting mine out with OH DX as well. Mine just falls inside the cabinet and I don't clean it out as often as I should.

No its mounted to the saw table and the whole thing is on castors, have a look at this thread I posted on the modifications I carried out to the table: axminster-ts250-2-modifications-t102284.html

Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

There is a lot to read there, Mike, I shall look at it later. But one thing puzzles me about this picture:

Your handle is in the middle of the saddle, but the bearing at the back is level with the fence. So how does clamping up between the two keep the fence square?

Am I not right in thinking that the fence does, in fact, NOT clamp over the table, that rear bearing is for support and easy sliding rather than clamping, and the clamping pressure is effected solely on the front rail, between the handle and the opposite side of the saddle? You effectively have a 3-point saddle, like mine, except that two of those points are actually a continuous mating face, matched with the rail extrusion.

If I am right, then I didn't express myself properly at the start of all this.

The fences I was disparaging are the ones which clamp by pulling the back end of the fence in to the table, usually with a hook of some sort, and the handle onto the front rail. They are the ones which cannot be relied upon to clamp squarely, because there is so much variation in positions which will actually clamp up.

With a 3-point saddle like mine (and, I now believe, like yours too), the clamping pressure is made over the front and back of the front rail, and the rigidity of the fence itself means that it doesn't give, even though it is clamped only at the front.

The flimsy fences I was referring to, and I used to have one myself, RELY on being clamped fore and aft, because they are not rigid enough to withstand a knock or two.

I don't think that yours is clamped across the table any more than mine is.

Please tell me I'm not wrong!

 

[MikeJhn]

The fence does clamp over the table, the photo is an old one as you can see from the amount of modifications carried out to the saw on the linked thread I posted earlier, its also before I moved the fence in line with the clamp arm which pulls the rear of the fence into the back rail and parallel over the table, once clamped the fence is impossible to move.

Mike

 

[Steve Maskery]

OK Mike, but I don't get it.
S