Affordable vs Pride

[Pabs]

experience

aye that;s what you;re paying for is the entire experience from quote to ongoing care
as i'm a more 'customer than amaker' at this stagei'd always pay more for everything - not just the product but the experience as a whole.

when i can afford it that is.

 

[baldkev]

I have indeed contracted the festool parasite.
I own the domino DF500 and do use it for a majority of my builds, it definitely speeds things up! But when you have say 5/6 wardrobe doors to make up, glue up, wait for the glue to set, work on them, finish them and you're just one guy. It still takes awhile, the festool gear just gives you something to look at whilst doing it ahaha.


It's definitely this. If you can convince people well enough, you can sell them anything. The trouble is people have the option of finance with Wren, that is a big part of why they sell so much. No large upfront costs, it's all marked up to the eyeballs in profit and stuck on a pay later scheme. Wren are laughing to the bank because they're able to provide to the clients who wouldn't be able to buy something outright, or prehaps have sat on the fence about a new kitchen for years and finally have the option to afford one. The product they sell is absolute tosh, and often arrives damaged and needs to be replaced on deliverly, but they're still making a profit!

Marketing is a big play. If you look the part on the socials and seem to be doing well, everyone wants a part of it.

Howdens are losing lots of kitchens to wren because of the finance. My local rep said theyve had a few jobs lately where they were cheaper than wren ( quite a bit ) but still lost the sales because the customers took the finance offer

 

[homeinthecity]

Howdens are losing lots of kitchens to wren because of the finance. My local rep said theyve had a few jobs lately where they were cheaper than wren ( quite a bit ) but still lost the sales because the customers took the finance offer

They’re also likely getting a referral fee from the finance provider, so Wren make even more on an already marked up kitchen!

 

[Jameshow]

Howdens are losing lots of kitchens to wren because of the finance. My local rep said theyve had a few jobs lately where they were cheaper than wren ( quite a bit ) but still lost the sales because the customers took the finance offer

What's the quality like Howdens Vs wren?

 

[Herr Nilsson]

I have indeed contracted the festool parasite.

Simples then. Stop drooling over the new CSC SYS 50 Table Saw and imaging that it will make you more productive (..appreciate this completely contradicts the sentiment of my previous comment!), and instead use the money to take your better half on holiday; thereby dispelling the idea that you aren’t earning enough. That should buy you some reprieve for at least 12 months. By which time you hopefully won’t have to remortgage your house just to be in a position to save on buying plywood in bulk, as alluded to by Ollie78.
Apologies if I’m “projecting” here!

 

[baldkev]

What's the quality like Howdens Vs wren?

I haven't fitted or even seen a wren kitchen..... a current customer who ive quoted on a howdens kitchen was shopping around for options and did lots of trustpilot / reviews etc and ruled out wren, wickes, b and poo based on the terrible reviews for quality.

Edit to add: years ago my dad bought and b and poo kitchen and got me to fit it. Within a couple of years a door delaminated... theyve got a plastic cover pulled over a core.... another couple of years and a few of them were blown.... its now about 10 years and every door is blown, some of the mouldings are gone and the cupboards havent faired well either.

 

[Adam W.]

I would suggest looking at doing something other than trying to compete with companies which specialise in one product be it bathrooms, kitchens, wardrobes etc.

Repair and maintenance is where the money is.

 

[MikeJhn]

Edit to add: years ago my dad bought and b and poo kitchen and got me to fit it. Within a couple of years a door delaminated... theyve got a plastic cover pulled over a core.... another couple of years and a few of them were blown.... its now about 10 years and every door is blown, some of the mouldings are gone and the cupboards havent faired well either.

There is a continuing big problem with vinyl wrapped doors, they look nice at first, but most will blow eventually, would not recommend to anyone.

 

[deema]

What is your market, who do you want to sell to? Sounds strange doesn’t it? Well, if you’re targeting everyone who wants a kitchen you are likely to not be successful. If you take say house bands of (for example)
Up to £250K. First time buyers
£250~£750. Family buyers
£750~£1M. Middle income buyers
£1M plus. Wealthy buyers
You will find their price pice sensitivity and expectations will be different. You’re unlikely for instance to be competing with Howdens, Sharp and Wren in the £1M houses. You will probably be fitting Miele rather that Beko! So you differentiate on what you offer and how you offer it. You need to setup and adapt your manufacturing systems to match the market strata you are targeting.
Look at who you competing with, who they are targeting and how competitive each strata is. You also need to look at how many chimney pots in your area are in each segment to work out if there will be enough business. You might target a couple of stata, but it’s simply not feasible to be successful in all of them.

Take a look at DrBobs threads and the kitchens he produces. He’s definitely not look to sell to first time buyers as an example.

 

[BrandonB]

What's the quality like Howdens Vs wren?

Pretty much the same. Wren isn't great neither is Howdens, they both have good and bad areas. I mean the last install I fitted was a shaker style kitchen from Wren. The shaker style doors where just edge banded strips glued together with a rebate for the panel. So you have 0.8/1mm edge banding which each joint of the stile and rails, disgusting but it's mass produced. You can't expect craftsman level from a big box store.

Simples then. Stop drooling over the new CSC SYS 50 Table Saw and imaging that it will make you more productive (..appreciate this completely contradicts the sentiment of my previous comment!), and instead use the money to take your better half on holiday; thereby dispelling the idea that you aren’t earning enough. That should buy you some reprieve for at least 12 months. By which time you hopefully won’t have to remortgage your house just to be in a position to save on buying plywood in bulk, as alluded to by Ollie78.
Apologies if I’m “projecting” here!

Nah, I'm not insane or that bad with the 'festool' obession. I don't feel the need to have everything they make, I do not own the clothing. It hasn't got to that stage yet.
You have to remember when buying any tool, will this earn money, create a return and save time? If the answer is no, then you are buying it for no reason. There isn't much point buying a tool/item for work if it isn't serving a purpose. Sure it looks pretty and will look impressive, but at your own expense. It's nice to look at a stack of systainers and appreciate how sophiscated it looks etc, but it's just cost you an arm and leg which will be sat in your shop for years not making you a penny.
Like you said, you could of went away, treated yourself outside of work for the same amount of money, but you spent it on making your shop look pretty. I know where I'd rather be spending the profit on.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Vinyl wrapped doors - 15 years ago I installed a Homebase gloss white kitchen. The only damage to the doors or cabinets in that time (normal use) was by the oven where the vinyl wrapped end panel had started to delaminate (heat issue?)

The reason for Homebase - daughter had part time job and large staff discount.

Looking at B&Q website they guarantee kitchen doors for 25 years - subject to the normal legalese - maintained and used according to instructions, exclude normal wear and tear etc. Possibly too good to be true but should cover manufacturing failures for several years.

There is a place for vinyl wrapped kitchens. I accept that there are better door finishes (at a cost), but most folk who can afford a premium kitchen may rarely keep the same kitchen for decades.

They refit to meet changing needs, extend as finances and circumstances dictate, move etc. I understand that for many more prosperous home movers who can afford a premium kitchen, the first items to be changed are kitchens and bathrooms even if entirely serviceable and fairly new!

Understandably the more financially challenged may keep a kitchen far longer - but would have price uppermost in their mind when they did refit.

 

[johnnyb]

howdens or Tom howley it's just something to be used I remember going to a Middle size house showing a pic of a kitchen we'd just made." why would aanyone buy a kitchen from you guys?" implying that howdens are simply the best. mass market is a difficult one. even if you could sell you could never deliver. I'm tempted to go for a job fitting kitchens in housing association properties £1000 a week.