Advice please; Work-bench and Vice

[Copes]

Thanks for the feedback sundaytrucker, can you explain how this might be an issue?

In seasonal movement, its the width that's the problem right? do you mean the side rails being flush with the top, it might lift it?

I recently added the top rails to the design, as i thought it would make it a bit easier to make the sides a "unit", and it gives me the option to run a through lagbolts up through them into the top.

While we're on the topic of assembly/disassembly, does anyone have a suggestion of how to do the front and rear rails without gluing them? The door to my workshop is pretty tight so it would be ideal to be able to take these apart as well. Would a couple of dry dowels into the tenon work, so i could tap them out at a later date?

Cheers everyone.

 

[Copes]

After looking at your thread on the sellers bench thetyreman, seems like i've made a bigger molehill for myself by not buying PAR.

I got everything i needed from the Oxford recycling centre in abingdon, Paul sellers actually did a video tour of it recently(ish) Id highly recommend it.

I bought a bunch of 9x2's for the top which i'm going to resaw down to 4~ x 2's
4, 4x4's for the legs
and some 2x4's for the rails etc
which all in was £50 with a couple of quid change.

All it's going to take is a million hours to plane it all ...on the plus side, having never really squared anything... it's going to be a hell of a lot of practise!

 

[sundaytrucker]

Thanks for the feedback sundaytrucker, can you explain how this might be an issue?

In seasonal movement, its the width that's the problem right? do you mean the side rails being flush with the top, it might lift it?

I recently added the top rails to the design, as i thought it would make it a bit easier to make the sides a "unit", and it gives me the option to run a through lagbolts up through them into the top.

While we're on the topic of assembly/disassembly, does anyone have a suggestion of how to do the front and rear rails without gluing them? The door to my workshop is pretty tight so it would be ideal to be able to take these apart as well. Would a couple of dry dowels into the tenon work, so i could tap them out at a later date?

Cheers everyone.

No problem I just hope my input helps and doesn't confuse.

From my understanding the top rails being flush and expanding/contracting due to seasonal movement is what could cause issue and lift the top, if you look at the English Workbench type designs (Paul Sellers and Richard Maguire have two different takes on a similar design) they usually have a bearer sitting on top of the top rail to minimise movement.

If the bench top is thick enough then I would just M&T straight in with no top rail.

To keep the front and rear rails removable you could do something like the image below

 

[ED65]

All it's going to take is a million hours to plane it all

Nah, you'll be fine. It'll just seem like a million hours while you're doing it seriously though, it would be very different if you were building from hardwood but redwood won't put up that much resistance.

If the wood is quite rough it would benefit from a first going over with a plane that has a radiused iron. So either a jack set up the traditional way or a smaller plane with a distinct radius on the iron to turn it into a roughing plane/scrub plane.

I don't know myself now that I have a roughing plane, reclaimed boards with weathered surfaces and rough-sawn pallet wood that used to be a real slog to turn into something usable I can clean up in just a couple of minutes, and with surprisingly little effort if the shaving taken is modest (this is planing with the grain, not diagonally as you'd normally do if wasting wood down to thickness). Even with the radiused edge this leaves a surprisingly flat surface, not noticeably scalloped like you'd think, and a scant few passes with a no. 4 set fine will easily get you to flat and smooth. Easily as good as PAR and without the rounded corners.

Back to a few things from the opening post, was the MDF layer intended as a sacrificial surface? If so it doesn't need to be 1" material! Just 6mm would do very well. Some people who build laminated tops use only 1/8" hardboard as a skin and it can hold up for ages. If the MDF is to add mass I wouldn't worry, the 3" thick top you're planning to glue up is plenty heavy. Even if the bench ended up a little on the light side there are ways to tackle the problem.

Six bolts is fine (more than enough) to hold the top. You'd be amazed how few screws can hold on a workbench top and have it rock solid: a few older designs use just four screws, some newer ones just six not even particularly large wood screws.

About the unglued connections, when you use bolts it's normal not to glue the joint.

On the vice, if you can hold out until you can find one for a good price I would go for a vintage Record or one of the other reliable brands rather than a new Draper. The Draper one might be perfectly good, but you never know with stuff like this made in China so you're taking a small risk that it might give up the ghost in a few years after a lot of use, whereas an old Record or Woden will see three or four generations of woodworkers through their entire careers.

 

[ED65]

From my understanding the top rails being flush and expanding/contracting due to seasonal movement is what could cause issue and lift the top

Obviously the top rail does expand and contract, but it's not wide enough for it to be a problem. All table and bench rails move slightly and there are plenty of bench designs where the top bears directly onto the edge of side rails or rails front and back, even sometimes on a complete apron like on a typical dining table.

 

[Cordy]

Back to a few things from the opening post, was the MDF layer intended as a sacrificial surface? If so it doesn't need to be 1" material! Just 6mm would do very well

ED65; thanks for that -- will now use 12mm, I can find a use for the off-cut

Now searching for quick release Record 52 1/2 on the Bay

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I would try to find MRMDF - Ordinary stuff blows quickly should it get wet. Yeah, I know ... it'll never get wet ...

 

[ED65]

Now searching for quick release Record 52 1/2 on the Bay

No car boots near you? I would go the boot sale route or look on Gumtree any day before even looking on ebay, where you'll often pay more than the going rate for anything to begin with. And especially with something really hefty like a vice the shipping can be dire.

I would try to find MRMDF - Ordinary stuff blows quickly should it get wet.

That's why God invented varnish

 

[Phil Pascoe]

He hasn't invented unscratchable varnish yet.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A few months ago I sold a 52 1/2E and a 53E for £45 each on local small newspaper ads - it does pay to watch them, sometimes. The guy who bought them said the only one he had tracked down before mine at the time was in Aberdeen - I'm 27 miles from Land's End. As ED said - their weight goes against them.

 

[ED65]

He hasn't invented unscratchable varnish yet.

It's a workbench, it's supposed to get scratched 8)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

and then if something is spilt and not noticed? I've done it - that's why I suggested MRMDF. :lol:

 

[Cordy]

Made a start today
Don't have many clamps; only those and 3 more smallish ones

 

[ED65]

and then if something is spilt and not noticed? I've done it - that's why I suggested MRMDF. :lol:

And that's why I mentioned varnish :lol:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Back to your comment about benches getting scratched. I ruined an MDF top ... yes, a varnished one ... because something leaked and I was away for a few days. You know what - I really don't care whether he uses MRMDF or tissue paper.

 

[ED65]

Don't have many clamps; only those and 3 more smallish ones

Priority then: build some clamps for the final assembly!

You could always try a series of Spanish windlasses if you had to but the clamp pressure they apply might not be quite what you need. The wedges here will apply more pressure with less chance of bruising the wood.

 

[ED65]

Geez Phil relax, we're just kidding around here.

 

[Cordy]

Thanks for that ED65, it would take me too long to make my own clamps
Don't want to buy a set of 3 ft clamps as most likely they will not get used again

The bench top is 6 ft x 3 x2 inch; I am gluing and clamping them into 2 lots of 4 and a five

Did you notice the shiny new Domino 500 ? --
Me yesterday -- 'I'm just popping over to AXY at Warrington luv; I need some 8mm dowels'
Mrs Cordy -- ' Yeah right, don't forget your debit card'

I've Dominoed all the boards; 8 mm x 50; at 8 inch intervals

Is it a good idea to Domino the 3 sections together and strengthen the joints with pocket holes; to save needing longer clamps ?

 

[MattRoberts]

Pocket holes will never be anywhere near as strong as dominos.

If you don't want to buy or make large clamps, you can just use the same principle of wedges in Ed's example above. Put the glue up top on the floor with one side up against a wall, and a large heavy object against the other side (cabinet or box or something). Then just use a couple of wedges to apply the pressure.

 

[John15]

You say you don't want to buy any clamps but aluminium sash clamps are not expensive. You would need 4ft ones for your 3ft wide bench. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-x-1200mm-AL ... Sw2XFUi1C5.

John