Advice on the Record Power DML or CL range

[morturn]

I am in the process of enlarging my woodworking shop, as things were getting too cramped to work safely. I am a general all-rounder when it comes to woodworking, I have made things like, tables, cabinets, boxes and a few acoustic guitars.

I would like a wood turning lathe in the new workshop but only as a supplement to what I already do. I would like the capacity to turn the odd table leg or two, no more than 750mm. I also would like to make bowls, and quite like the idea of segmented bowls, say no larger than 300mm. I also have some access to green wood branches; I do like some of the freeform tuning.

I would be quite happy to buy second hand, at least to get me started at woodturning, but am not sure about the type of machine. It seems that variable speed motors and an indexing head are very desirable.

I have always liked the look of the Record Power kits, however I have no idea what the difference is between the Record Power DML 36 or the Record Power CL3? I did talk to a professional wood turner, who said the Record Power lathes were crap, but did not say why.

Any thoughts or comments about the Record DML or CL range, or any other suitable machine would be really appreciated.

 

[SVB]

My views on record here:

post592494.html?hilit=Record#p592494

In summary, I'd buy elsewhere but that is down to personal preference.

As many of said, even as an occasional turner, a visit to a local club will be very informative and is to be recommended if you have the time.

Simon

 

[Brianp]

I had a DML 24, very similar in all but capacity to the 36. I found it solid and reasonably well put together for the year I owned it. I upgraded for capacity reasons (swing over the bed) and for something with a variable speed. There are 3 pulleys on the DMLs and it's a bit of a pain to change them before or during a turning.

But as a starter lathe, which I found 2nd hand for a good price, I was thoroughly chuffed with it.

Variable speed is highly desirable, but like photography, the lathe you have is better than the lathe you dont! Plus it might be an inexpensive way to see whether it's something you'll use.

 

[chipmunk]

+1 for Simon's comments.

If you like the idea of buying 40+year old technology then buy a Record round bed bar lathe - DML 24 or CL X. They are all the fundamentally the same IMHO.
Feeble 1 Morse Taper, 3/4" x 16TPI headstock thread with plain bearings that require oiling, saggy bed bars that need turning to keep then straight and "clunky" banjos and tailstocks. ...Head down for hoots of derision from the Record fan club :|

I may be wrong but even Record have finally decided that they're too old to sell now.
They have disappeared from their website although they still support them with upgrades to variable speed and outboard rests etc.

If you like Record gear then take a look at the DML320 with a bed extension for your spindles? It's taken them a while but they have caught up with the mainstream.
Or look at Axminster's range of similar lathes.

Cast iron beds are the way to go really, 2 Morse Taper for drilling stability and sealed for life bearings. Personally I'd steer clear of Reeve's drive variable speed because it's noisy, requires maintenance and is usually associated with low-end lathes (only exception to this is the Jet 1442 but this is getting long in the tooth too IMHO).

HTH
Jon

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The new Records have a larger thread, sealed bearings and a No.2 taper, I've been told. As jon said, the old ones are primitive.
I had an ML8 with a link belt which was way, way noisier than my old 28 - 40 which has a reeves drive.

 

[Bigbud78]

Ultimately it boils down to money and availability, I've read similar comments as above when I was looking for a lathe. There was little else for the few months I was looking that was affordable to me, if I was buying new then I wouldn't have purchased my Record CL4.

There are plenty of Record machines on ebay and a like and they hold their price in the used market, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one used with a view to upgrading later. Just ensure any chucks you buy have sleeves so you can change machines.

I paid £480 for my CL4 with stand, bowl outrigger, chuck, two sets of hamlet tools, full sanding system, full grinding setup and two air extractors. With the sale of everything I didn't want it cost me about £200, so I'm not too bothered about the round bars and Mt1 currently as its more capable than I am.

 

[Castanea]

Some folk can knock Record all they like (and suggest the bearings need oiling which they don't or the bars need turning which they don't) but I picked my DML up locally with a bowl rest, rotating headstock and a handfull of tools for £100. If you have a lot of money to throw at your hobby there are some fabulously well engineered and advanced lathes to be had. If you are working on anything like a budget then second hand Records are fantastic value and do the job. As a machine for occasional use or a first lathe they're good solid bits of kit and whilst the banjo and tailstock are clunky it's something I can live with. As for 40 year old technology - it's a lathe - it goes round and round - how up to date do you really need it to be? Decent turners were turning decent stuff 40 years ago and more, much more, so I try to concentrate on my tool skills rather than yearning for a better more modern lathe. For many of us our lathe choice is down to what comes up on ebay cheaply and within easy reach so getting hung up on the ideal lathe is somewhat irrelevant - just get hold of something that works and starting turning!

 

[chipmunk]

As Bigbud says, when buying second hand the choice is limited and there are an awful lot of Record lathes out there. After all they've been sold for donkey's years.

The good news is that spares are available and they are pretty bomb-proof and so it's easy to tell if an RP lathe is up to snuff almost just by looking at it and running it. Other lathes are not always so easy to tell. Buying new is a different ball-game altogether.

I went through the same thought process when buying my metalworking lathe. I ended up with a second hand Myford. It's the RP lathe equivalent in the metalworking world - Nearly 70 years old, plain bearings that pea oil everywhere, is as mucky as hell but still capable of turning to within half a thou, albeit on a ring main without an RCD.

You pays the money and it's ultimately up to you to make the call I'm afraid.
HTH
Jon

 

[chipmunk]

Some folk can knock Record all they like (and suggest the bearings need oiling which they don't or the bars need turning which they don't)

Well I guess both of these were always optional :wink:

I stand corrected that the cheaper Record lathes have sealed bearings and use tubular bars which don't sag under their own weight but dare I say it that the words "lipstick" and "pig" spring to mind here.
The CL3 and CL4 which were the top of this range used plain bearings and solid bed bars to the end AFAIK.

Jon

 

[paulm]

Jon's somewhat over the top views and comments on this are well known on here, however, just to add some balance and context, he is in my view in a very small minority that rubbish what are perfectly capable machines that the vast majority of users are perfectly happy with, and that would suit the OP's stated needs very well indeed and at modest cost.

Cheers, Paul

 

[morturn]

Thank you all for the very insightful and interesting responses, I am glad I asked here. I will certainly join a woodturning club and (thank you for the link) have found one not too far from me in the village of Burcote. I will contact them later today.

I will think about what has been suggested; certainly I am looking for a lathe to step into woodturning as opposed to getting top notch kit that’s future proof, for the time being anyway.

Thanks again.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"Some folk can knock Record all they like and suggest the bearings need oiling which they don't" :?
Why then is there a facility for this purpose? Why do the professional turner and other experienced turners at our club oil them every night they're used?
They are a perfectly capable lathe, but boy are they primitive. I look forward to seeing the new ones, though.

 

[Dalboy]

I have the CL3 and have been very pleased with it, I only use it as a hobby lathe and it has done everything that I have wanted. The bars are solid and there is only one bearing that needs oiling but that is no problem and the other little thing that I feel they could have improved on is a through hole at the headstock end. But even then these are minor niggles and I am sure that whatever lathe is out there they all have minor niggles to the owner.

 

[chipmunk]

Jon's somewhat over the top views and comments on this are well known on here, however, just to add some balance and context, he is in my view in a very small minority that rubbish what are perfectly capable machines that the vast majority of users are perfectly happy with, and that would suit the OP's stated needs very well indeed and at modest cost.

Guilty as charged - I'll come quietly guv. :wink:

Jon

 

[Phil Pascoe]

If the new ones have a No.2 taper, I would imagine they've a hollow spindle. As said, the solid one's a pita.

 

[Castanea]

There's no facility for oiling, greasing or otherwise lubricating the sealed bearigs on my DML36 and no mention of oiling them in the Record manual.

 

[paulm]

The DML, CL1 and CL2 models I believe have sealed bearings, no oiling required, while the CL3 and 4 have larger phospor bronze tapered bearings for higher loads and these are the ones that need a couple of drops of oil in use through the little oiler cap at the top of the headstock.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Castanea]

Thanks for the clarification Paul.