Advice on spindle moulder purchase

[guineafowl21]

Just wondered what you guys think of the Holzman FS 200S, link: Holzmann Fs200s 240v 4 Speed Tilting Spindle Moulder, HZMFS200S at D&M Tools

There is one on ebay for 1K nearly new With some tooling.
Is Holzman a decent brand? I know its single phase, but it looks to have reasonable specs?
Many thanks

That looks like any number of rebadged Axminster/Charnwood/Rutlands etc. offerings. Plenty of functionality, but lacking in build quality.

Edit: cross post with above.

I’d be tempted to look second-hand, and older. What about the Kity or Scheppach HF3000?

 

[clogs]

not sure that a 5hp x 3phase motor can be run from home 240.....
unless u have a cooker feed.....perhaps....others will know better....
in a similar situation.....have to sell some machines with big motors and for a few will buy new motors....
Have a little Kitty429.....amazing little machine.....done everything I've asked of it....
I bought it for chucking in the van....always working away.......
but I do have a 5hp monster at home.....

 

[NoviceJimbo]

Thanks, yes I think definitely avoid any Chinese stuff then.

did enquire about 3ph today, and was a bit put off by the price for setting up etc!

There is a Hammer B3 Winner Comfort table saw and shaper combo on ebay. I have not really heard of Hammer, do they have a good name? Not sure of a combo either really. I am thinking a dedicated machine is going to be more suitable.
I am going to have a go at A Kity Bestcombi 2000 on ebay this evening, but I think really an older 2nd hand non combo moulder is going to be better.

On the list of those I am waiting for replies to my enquiries are a Wadkin EQ series big machine, a Wadkin BER 2 240v 3hp, a Luna L28 and an SCM T100 with a power feed and a few Kitys! Got to make a decision……

 

[Inspector]

My buddy passed last spring and his wife has the tools to sell off. She has a combination machine (Felder or Hammer which are Austrian made) a half length slider with tilting arbour shaper and a 12" thicknesser/planer and possibly a morticing attachment too. I believe there are a few extra spindles including one to hold router bits. The reason I haven't bought it is that it is a big chunk of metal and being that my shop is above the garage I'm worried it might drop through the floor and squish my wife's Audi. Then she would be selling my tools. It is also an 18 hour round trip not including gas and hotel stops. In your case if the Hammer is in good condition and priced fairly buy it.

Pete

 

[MikeK]

Thanks Doug, probably stay away from that would you say?

I am very happy to say that I used to have a Holzmann Planer/Thicknesser. It was horrible and I replaced it with a Minimax (SCM) P/T. If the FS200S is anything like the P/T I had, I would keep looking.

The Hammer is a good product and is the less expensive product line of Felder.

 

[NoviceJimbo]

Thanks Pete, sorry about your buddy. the hammer is above my budget, and it would take up a lot of my garage…but it does look nice!

Thanks Mike, definitely not going Holzmann! Is the hammer as good as the older Wadkin and SCM machines?

 

[guineafowl21]

Hammer seems well regarded, but you’re paying for the table saw part that you don’t need.

I’ve not seen an SCM T100, but I had a T110 that was built like a tank. Power feed is a bonus. If it has a 30mm shaft, all the table inserts (and you can power it) and some tooling I’d go for that.

 

[RobinBHM]

No you don't. I made a load of windows back in the day with a small Kity 636.

Power feed is ideal.

And look up 'false fences'....best advice my old boss ever gave me.

Funnily enough my first spindle moulder was a Kity 636.

I even had a power feed on it - but you couldn’t swing it back or it would tip the machine over.

but I really don’t think it would be suitable for the number and size of windows the OP wants to make.

The OP wants to make 12no big windows - that’s probably £40ks worth of work and quite a few thousands in timber alone, a DIY spindle would be a false economy

 

[woodieallen]

Funnily enough my first spindle moulder was a Kity 636.

I even had a power feed on it - but you couldn’t swing it back or it would tip the machine over.

but I really don’t think it would be suitable for the number and size of windows the OP wants to make.

The OP wants to make 12no big windows - that’s probably £40ks worth of work and quite a few thousands in timber alone, a DIY spindle would be a false economy

I don't share that view. I also used to have a 636 and made loads of large windows etc. Power feed was fine and must have been smaller than yours as it never tipped the machine over.

 

[heimlaga]

In my oppinion those small lightweight DIY spindle moulders have all the downsides of a router table combined with all the downsides of a spindle moulder. Not worth having.

The minimum size to be useful is in my oppinion a totel weight of at the very least 300 kilos and a 2,2kW motor. Bigger is better.

Avoid a certain model of old Wadkin that used a custom spindle bearing no longer available. Many other older models are very good.

 

[clogs]

heimlaga....
there's one other positive of a small spindle moulders.....
u can sneak one in the workshop under the radar of her indoors....hahaha...
we dont all have the lux or a lot of room ....
I'm lucky.....wifey says if u need it go buy it.....what use is money in the bank....???
it's me that has to justify spending the money....

I dragged my Kitty (not pussey) all over the place shop fitting...
be lost without it....lol.....

 

[NoviceJimbo]

Heimlaga, can you tell me which model of Wadkin that is?

 

[Doug71]

I think it's the Wadkin EQ that has the expensive bearings but someone who knows more than me might confirm that.

I have a Wadkin BER 2, nice solid machine, only downside is it's a bit basic, no tilt or sliding table. I have managed without these so far but would be nice to have.

The price of basic tooling for spindle moulders is very reasonable but be warned once you get on to more specialised blocks the price goes up massively.

 

[guineafowl21]

Yes, that would be the special oil mist bearings on the EQ. I think you can still get them, but they are very expensive. That said, if they’ve been looked after, they should last a very long time. Don’t buy an EQ unseen, but a good example will easily outlast you,

 

[NoviceJimbo]

Thanks Doug & Guineafowl, I have been looking at two of these very Wadkin! They are too far to visit in person, so I think I will avoid in case the bearings are needed. Many thanks

 

[NoviceJimbo]

I was wondering if it would be possible to fit a single phase 5hp motor to a 3 phase machine and fit a vfd for speed setting? Has anyone done this? from what i can tell the motor would be about £500

 

[Inspector]

Generally you can't use a VFD on a single phase motor. 220V three phase delta wound motors are the easiest to do it with a VFD from 220V single phase service.

Pete

 

[kramhadron]

One alternative that nobody has mentioned is a combination machine. I mention it as something more aspirational perhaps at this time for you and because you stated you work in a small garage so space is a premium.

I have a Robland 310 which is single phase and gives me a large table saw with sliding bed, planer thicknesser and a spindle moulder. There is also a slot mortiser which I have never used because I have a dedicated tool.

Of course there are disadvantages of a combination tool mainly around not being able to use your table saw if you have set up your spindle moulder etc. However I get a very heavy cast iron bed tool that doesn't vibrate with a relatively small footprint in the double garage I work in. I can't imagine a professional cabinet maker having one but as an amateur I make the best use of the space I have.

Yes I would love individual tools but I simply don't have the space. By the time you have a couple of workbenches a lathe and a wood rack, shelves, router table, various power tools even a the manufacture of a double wardrobe has to be planned for in the space.

A decent Combination tool will cost upwards of £3,500, but then I didn't buy mine until I had 30 years to retirement. Now with only 6 years to go I consider it to have been the best investment I could have made with the space I had.

I realise that this doesn't directly answer your question, more food for thought...

 

[wallace]

Dont be put off by an EQ being too far away to check it out. Ask for a video of it running up and down. You can tell alot from just that. If it has had grease nipples put on then dont touch it. Like already said they run oil mist system. But then again EQ's can sometimes go for very little money so even if you did have to change the bearings then you would have a machine that would outlast you.
If your patient there are bargains out there, I picked up a nice little BRS for only £100

 

[RobinBHM]

Dont be put off by an EQ being too far away to check it out. Ask for a video of it running up and down. You can tell alot from just that. If it has had grease nipples put on then dont touch it. Like already said they run oil mist system. But then again EQ's can sometimes go for very little money so even if you did have to change the bearings then you would have a machine that would outlast you.
If your patient there are bargains out there, I picked up a nice little BRS for only £100

I have heard that some people put in sleeves which allow off the shelf bearings to fit, not sure if that would work ok, clearly the sleeves would need accurate machining.

I had a heavy duty SCM spindle moulder which had paired bearings which had special cupped washers, when the bearings were put on, the washers were compressed by nut and that tightened up the bearings on the shaft.