Advice on scribing needed

[DangerousDave]

Hi all, I'm building MFC fitted wardrobes in an attic bedroom. I've fitted the carcasses with an approx 50mm gap at each side

I know I have to scribe filler pieces to the contour of the wall to fill these spaces, but not quite sure how to do it. Do I set the fillers back a set amount, say 25mm and set my compass to this amount? How wide do I rip the fillers pieces, is it the maximum gap between wall and unit? (the gap on the left of the units varies quite a bit, the wall on the left is well out of square with the floor). I'm very confused :? Any help would be very much appreciated

 

[DangerousDave]

Also, if anyones interested, theres more photos of the robes and the SU design here;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dangerousdave118/sets/

 

[skipdiver]

Cut the fillet to the widest width plus about 10mm because it is better if the saw has some material to bite into and doesn't run off the side.Measure widest point of gap and put a register mark on the fillet,measuring from the opposite good edge.Fix the fillet on(with clamps or whatever method is best) making sure it is plumb,or parallel with the unit if unit is not perfectly plumb.Set compass to register mark and run down wall to scribe.I usually cut these with a hardpoint saw and deliberately cut back at an angle.Any trimming with a plane is then much easier as there is less surface area to take away and mfc blunts your planes like nothing else.

Another thing you can do is use a scribing wheel.I think Trend sell them but i make my own by drilling a 1 1/2" hole in a piece of 4mm ply with a hole saw.You use the centre pilot hole for your pencil and run it down the wall like a wheel.Problem with these is that the fillet has to be a set distance from wall(the radius of the wheel) whereas with a compass you can set the fillet any distance you like,then set the compass.

Hope this makes sense.Sounds complicated but it's not really.

 

[DangerousDave]

Hope this makes sense.Sounds complicated but it's not really.

Thanks Skipdiver, makes perfect sense. I knew it was something like that, wasn't sure how to go about it. Like the sound of a scribing wheel, thats a neat idea. Time to get the hole saw set out and make a few of different sizes. I'll post another pic once I get the fillets and plinths fitted. Its gonna be a b*****d scribing the top plinth to the ceiling due to the pitch, the plan is to cover the inevitible gap with some thin scotia moulding (thin enough to follow the slope of the ceiling)

 

[skipdiver]

If you go about it in the right manner,you shouldn't need to put any mouldings on.Scribing is surprisingly accurate and i usually finish off with a bit of acrylic sealant all round to hide any very slight gaps.This then gets brought in with the paint finish and looks very neat.

 

[lurker]

Unless I misunderstand, then Penny washers or old cotton reels work just fine for this

 

[dennis]

Dave

I generally use compasses as you can easily set to a suitable width the only thing is you must keep them square to the surface being scribed.

Dennis

 

[dennis]

Dave

Just thought I would add that as you are new to scribing a way to get the reference right is measure from inside of carcass.

to wall top middle and bottom deduct 2 mill and mark on fillet cut to this then hold on to cupboard flush with the inside you could use double sided tape then get compasses or whatever you are using set to carcass t
hickness and scribe .

Dennis

 

[DangerousDave]

Thanks for the info chaps. I've made a b@lls of the 1st attempt for a number of reasons;

1. I used an offcut for the fillet that was quite wide. I thought I would save time by not ripping it to width twice. False economy. It was too wide for my compass to reach the reference mark, so I used a combination square as the scribing device. This proved to be not so accurate

2. I used a jigsaw with a down cut blade to make the cut. I set the undercut angle too high (30 deg) and found it very difficult to stay just outside the line. The resulting cut was all over the place

Needless to say, the language was choice :evil: I've calmed down now and I'll give it another go. S'pose the best way to learn is to learn from mistakes

 

[dennis]

Dave

Two mornings in a row as I am new to computers and trying to do a quick post before going to work I have made a b@lls up, this morning I somehow managed to break my text up and as with most of the others have not been very clear but I will get there eventually I hope.I generally go for just one cut if circumstances permit but if neither the wall nor the object you are fitting to are straight you must cut both edges , you can get away with a slight bend such as fitting an architrave to a bent doorframe but you must bend the material that you are scribing to match this on your reference points before scribing eg if you are fittng an architrave to a door frame that is bent 10mill tack the architrave to the frame say 20mill away from its desired position tack it top middle and bottom always allowing the 20mill then scribe 20mill off the wall side and it should fit. If I was fitting a filler piece as in your situation I would hold the board up pushed against the wall but held parallel to the carcass and with the old school compasses you can get away with scribing about 150mill off, holding the board parallel I would measure to the carcass then add the carcass thickness set the compasses to this and scribe,doing this gives you more spare board to play with on other bits and I would sooner cut once than twice but having said that you should not compromise the job for the sake of saving material and an extra cut it is probably better for someone new to it to cut slightly oversize and then go through the scribing procedure.Hope you have more luck with your next attempt and remember that the person that never made a mistake never made anything,we have all been there and some of us more times than we would care to mention.
Dennis

 

[George_N]

Cut the fillet to the widest width plus about 10mm because it is better if the saw has some material to bite into and doesn't run off the side.Measure widest point of gap and put a register mark on the fillet,measuring from the opposite good edge.Fix the fillet on(with clamps or whatever method is best) making sure it is plumb,or parallel with the unit if unit is not perfectly plumb.Set compass to register mark and run down wall to scribe.I usually cut these with a hardpoint saw and deliberately cut back at an angle.Any trimming with a plane is then much easier as there is less surface area to take away and mfc blunts your planes like nothing else.

When I did this recently I cut the panel to be scribed just as Skipdiver says and stuck it to the front edge of the wardrobe end panel with double sided carpet tape (useful for so many things in the workshop). I made sure it was parallel with the end panel by using a combination square as a depth gauge to set the overhang relative to the inside of the end panel (I hope that makes sense to you because I've just re-read it and I'm confusing myself) and scribed with a set of compasses. I cut the scribed line with my little bandsaw.

 

[DangerousDave]

Cheers guys, I'm gonna give it another go today. I know its hard to tell from the above photo, but the sides of the carcasses are perfectly straight and plumb. The one on the left looks like it is bendy at the top, must be something to do with the camera lens on my phone. I spent ages making sure the carcasses were constructed square and fitted plumb which will hopefully make it easier to fit the doors.

Any thoughts on the doors? I was thinking just plain MFC for a clean finish but I haven't decided yet. Bought a load of euro hinges and a 30mm hinge boring bit for the doors.

The other thing I'm worried about is the load on the floor joists (which are actually part of the roof trusses). The 18mm MFC is unbelievably heavy. There's no cracks in the plaster in the ceiling of the room below so I reckon there's no probs

 

[dennis]

Dave

Is this room a loft conversion or was it always a room I wouldnt think the joists were part of trusses with the space that can be seen it is more likely that the roof spars are nailed into the side of the joists at the wallplate.It could be like my own roof where the ceiling joists do not reach the wallplate this shows by a sloping section to the ceiling below, the joists just rely on nails to the roof spars and possibly purlins and are not designed to take any weight.You really need to check the construction there are so many different ways that it could have been done and it could also have been altered since it was built.You say that the cupboard is heavy but you also have to think of the weight of the things going in it as a lot of light things soon add up.

Dennis

 

[DangerousDave]

Dennis, Its a 'chalet' bungalow and the upstairs rooms were constructed when the house was built. I've taken a look in the eaves and the joists are definitely bearing on the wall plate. They seem to form part of the trusses and are attached with nail plates. I don't see any purlins in there.

It all looks sturdy enough and there's no sign of any movement in the ceiling in the room below. The joists are also bearing on a ground floor block wall thats underneath the stud wall on the LHS of the photo, the span being about 3.3m

I took a look at the building regs on the DOE website to try and work out the imposed and dead loads for the span and dimensions of the joists, but I got confused and gave up :?

 

[dennis]

Dave

As the house was built like that everthing should be fine I just cant see how they can be trusses unless they are specials to be able to have the space for a room,are you sure that it is not just joists and roof spars fastened together with nail plates, obviously the structure is strong enough
it is just that I have never seen a roof done with trusses that yours would need to be like,I would have thought it would be joists,spars and purlins above the ceiling,anyway good luck with the fillets.

Dennis

 

[skipdiver]

They're probably loft or dormer trusses.If so,then the floor/ceiling joist will be substantial enough to carry the load.

 

[BradNaylor]

I have started to use templates when scribing in furniture.

I scribe a piece of cheap hardboard or thin MDF to the wall using the normal techniques and then transfer this line to the work.

This eliminates mistakes and all the trimming for a perfect fit is done on the template, not the work. The furniture then fits first time, every time. :lol:


For a unit slotting into an alcove I make a full width template with a scribe at each side - it's dead easy!

I have now even taken to visiting the client's house before I finish the furniture to make my templates, and then scribe the furniture in the workshop before I apply the finish or paint. This cuts out all those annoying marks and chips that a jigsaw can make on a finished surface, reduces the time taken and mess caused in the client's house, is less stressful, and most importantly impresses the **** out of the client!

It also means that I don't generally use fillets. On a cabinet I simply extend the face frames beyond the edge of the carcass to the maximum width of the space and then cut them to shape from the template.

I heartily recommend this approach.

Cheers
Dan

 

[DangerousDave]

Ok, thats the fillets done Used Dan's idea and made templates out of some scrap pine. Used Steve's method for scribing. When I scribed them I used a block of wood with screw through it and just protruding on the other side. The distance between the edge of the block and the screw was equal to the distance from the wall to the register mark and the screw scribed a mark perfectly. I then transfered the templates onto the MFC and made a cut with a 15 deg back cut with the jigsaw. Because all the planing and tweaking was done on the templates, the actual MFC fillets fitted perfectly first time.
I made the rip cut on the templates with a hand saw and found it very easy to follow the line scribed by the screw. It's an awful lot easier planing a softwood template than it is planing MFC. The finish on the fillets is dead on, used a down cut blade on the jigsaw.
Next step is the scribed plinths top and bottom. Started making a softwood template for the top one. Bit of a nightmare due to the curve and slope of the ceiling. Lots of planing, then offering up, planing then offering up...

 

[skipdiver]

Funnily enough,i have been doing loads of scribing today and was wondering how you were getting on.Sounds like you've cracked it.