Advice on No 80 Scraper Plane

[weekend_woodworker]

I recently acquired an old Record 80 Scraper Plane. I have followed the advice on Paul Sellers Youtube about how to sharpen the blade. Sometimes when I use it, it works really nicely taking off very fine shavings, but some times it judders and starts leaving lines on the surface of the wood. What am I doing wrong and how do I avoid leaving lines over the surface of the wood?

Many thanks,

Mark

 

[AndyT]

I'd suggest you try slacking off the screw a bit, to take a shallower cut. Or try scraping in the opposite direction.

 

[IWW]

What AndyT said. Chattering is typically caused by taking too big a bite, especially with a not-too-sharp blade.
Are you burring your blade? When I first started using one of these I also found it hit & miss & eventually traced the problem to over-doing the burr. To get it to cut at all I had to put a more pronounced bow in the blade, which induces chattering.

It's a pretty simple tool to set up, just figure out what you did those times it worked well, & you're up & running.....

Cheers,

 

[weekend_woodworker]

Thank you both for your advice. As it is the first time using it in anger I am just trying to learn how to get it to work best. If the chattering is caused by it taking too big a bite, I will have a play with reducing that. The screw is not very tight at all, so I wonder if I have not got the burr right. I’ll see if I can have another go at the blade tonight and whether that improves it.

Many thanks,

Mark

 

[IWW]

Mark, you may be starting with he blade protruding too far. To set mine, I sit it on a smooth block of hardwood & slip in the blade til it makes light contact with the wood, then tighten it up. With no tension on the bowing screw, it should barely cut at all. You then dial in the amount of cut you want by bowing the blade.

Keep at it, it'll all come together pretty quickly......
Cheers,
Ian

 

[Argus]

Exactly.

Juddering producing a ridged finish is usually the iron taking a bit too much off.
It's possible to get a similar effect using a smoothing plane.
Look also at the grain formation in that area. It can be sometimes alleviated by changing the direction of attack, too. Come at it from the side, or reverse the stroke.

 

[Eric The Viking]

My Record #80 came with a 45 degree bevel. I'm not sure if the bevel helps or not! I think the 45 deg. is to simply make getting a burr easier.

Like the others above, I suspect technique in this case though, and trying too hard, or having too great a curve on the blade/iron*.

I did just the same, then lost patience and put it in the bottom of the plane chest, and ignored it for ages. I used a hand-held scraper instead.

When I came back to it, I got good results fairly easily. I think I must have learned something in the intervening time!

Try adjusting from not-cutting to almost not cutting, and see if that does it...

E.

PS: I use exactly the technique Ian describes, both for my #80 and my Boggs-pattern spokeshave (but I set that on the really soft softwood of the box lid). Both give a near-perfect setting with no fuss.


*I know it's a bit thicker than a hand-held scraper, but "iron" seems inappropriate - "blade" feels more like the right term!

 

[Nigel Burden]

My scraper plane is a homemade jobbie.

What I do after sharpening is, make sure that the adjuster screw is slackened off, push the plane body onto a flat surface and with a finger press the blade down to square it, then tighten the locking nuts, then adjust the cut. This way I find that I don't get too deep a cut.
The burr could well be the problem though, it's very easy to over do it.

Nigel.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Have a look at the plate that clamps the blade - if it has routinely had a lot of flex applied to the blade, this can become bent so that when the screw is fairlly loose, the blade is not clamped in the middle. If it is not flat, take a hammer and make it so. This really helped mine. It ought to be made from spring steel. Flawed tool desigh IMHO.

 

[weekend_woodworker]

Thanks for the advice. I have set the blade height in the way described by putting it in when on a flat surface. I therefore wonder if I put much of a burr on it when burnishing it. It is not something I have done before. Do I just use a file to take a bit of the burr off?

Thanks

Mark

 

[IWW]

....
...... Do I just use a file to take a bit of the burr off?....

Mark, to test if the burr is the source of your problem, just re-do it. Hold the burnisher flat along the back & run it along the edge a few times to flatten the existing burr, then re-form it, paying careful attention to the angle. This won't do any harm, in fact it will form a slightly more durable burr due to work-hardening of the steel. When re-forming, 3 or 4 firm strokes is usually sufficient, the burr should be just barely perceptible when you wipe a finger across the back (depending on how sensitive your fingers are, I suppose.. ).

I don't remember if anyone has mentioned it, but are you trying your scraper on a hard wood? Soft woods (i.e., including softer hardwoods) do not usually scrape well even with a well-tuned #80. Rule of thumb: the harder a wood, the better it scrapes...

And one other thing - the short sole of the 80 exacerbates any tendency to chatter. I found early on that placing my thumbs on the top of the sole behind the blade & putting the main effort via thumbs rather than the handles helps a lot in keeping the tool smoothly engaged. My thumbs start to protest on a long scraping session, I'll admit...
Cheers,
Ian

 

[weekend_woodworker]

Thanks for all the advice. I looked at the plate that holds the blade in place and decided it was slightly curved, so not supporting the middle of the blade. I tried turning it round to see if that fixed it, but it didn’t.

I am sorry Ian I had not seen your message when I had a go. I filed off some of the burr and it no longer chatters. I had to use the screw quite a bit to get it to take anything off, which probably isn’t surprising. I think I just need to practice putting the burr on it properly.

The wood I am using it on is some beech as I am trying to make a box for my mother to keep her seeds in for a Christmas present. It won’t win any prizes but hopefully she will like it.

Many thanks
Mark

 

[Woodernhift]

Have a look at the RenaissanceWW video on YouTube called Hand Tool Q&A: scrapers, a very good description of how to set up and use scrapers including the No 80

 

[IWW]

OK, you seem to be making progress; a bit of attention to edge preparation should get you there....

But it raises the question to me of why you are using a scraper on Beech? Admittedly, my experience of northern hemisphere Beech woods is limited, but what I have used was easily-worked stuff that responded very well to a smoothing plane. I'd class Beech as a wood that is only middling good to scrape (but then I live in the land of bone-hard woods). Scraping is something I associate with gnarly, recalcitrant woods, constantly-reversing grain, or the finishing of inlays & veneers.

A #80 would not be my choice for preparing a wood like Beech, but if it's the only tool you have for the job, then I guess you have to soldier on, but this seems like a good excuse to get yourself a nice little #4......

Cheers,
Ian

 

[weekend_woodworker]

Hi Ian, Good question. I guess I was partly trying to use it as it was new tool for me. I have a very nice old record no 4, but I am not sure I have managed to get any camber on the blade so was concerned that I could end up with tramlines on the surface. I had just routed out the word "Seeds" on the front of the box and then sprayed it black. I was trying just to scrape off the paint from the main surface leaving the lettering black but the main surface of the wood paint free. I have managed to do it now with a combination of the scraper and some sanding. I guess every day is a learning day and if I carry on I might even get good one of these days!

Best wishes,

Mark

 

[Bod]

I recently acquired an old Record 80 Scraper Plane. I have followed the advice on Paul Sellers Youtube about how to sharpen the blade. Sometimes when I use it, it works really nicely taking off very fine shavings, but some times it judders and starts leaving lines on the surface of the wood. What am I doing wrong and how do I avoid leaving lines over the surface of the wood?

Many thanks
Mark

Back in August I replied to a simlar thread with this.
"
Had an interesting time yesterday, mine started to cut only with the corners, taking gouges out.
re-sharpening, no effect, only cutting at the corners, despite screwing the adjuster up tight.
Viewing the cutting edge, it was hollow in the middle, hence only the corners cutting.
Blade, joined as per saw sharpening, to give a flat cutting edge, re sharpened as normal.
Correct operation now restored.
I've had this for many years, sharpened, both re-burred, and full sharpened, numerous times, this is the first time I've had to true up the edge. "
If yours is 2nd hand, then it may need this doing.
You will lose part of the bevel on the ends, how much will depend on the amount of hollow.
Eclipse sharpening jigs, will allow a scraper blade to be set at 45 degrees to regrind the bevel(Tip, use a 45 degree mitre gauge to set it up) Once the bevel is restored, burr over as normal.

Bod

 

[John15]

Here are the instructions included with my Stanley No.80

(Sorry, I can't seem to load them)

 

[IWW]

..... I had just routed out the word "Seeds" on the front of the box and then sprayed it black. I was trying just to scrape off the paint from the main surface leaving the lettering black but the main surface of the wood paint free. ......

OK, good answer - in that case I would have used a scraper too.....

For some reason I thought you were prepping your boards using the scraper - I get lots of exercise jumping to conclusions!

Eliminating tramlines from a smoothing plane can be a contentious topic, but there seems to be two main schools, those who add camber & those who keep the cutting edge straight & touch off the corners. I belong to the latter school, probably because that's the way I was taught 60 years ago. In both cases finishing cuts need to be very fine. I usually work with two smoothing planes, one for initial smoothing & one kept for those final wispy shavings to put the gloss on things. But the best-planed surface can have the odd line, so I still use a final sanding as insurance when I want an absolutely flawless surface....

Cheers,

 

[Nigel Burden]

A blunt chisel, that is, one that's been deliberately ground blunt on the cutting edge, makes a very good scraper.

http://www.billcarterwoodworkingplanemaker.co.uk/
Go to the Select a technique tab and select Using a ground off chisel.

Nigel.