Advice on creating a moulding on a massive beam

[mccpe]

My current project involves replacing two beams which will form part of a ceiling and floor above. The beams are 40cm (16") square by 7m (23') long. Not weighed, but they are pine and therefore they probably weigh about a third of a ton.

I am trying to work out how to put a round bead moulding on the two lower corners of the beam - see sketch (shows one corner moulding).

Router cutters for full beads seem to go up to a maximum bead radius of 9mm (3/8") but I think that will be too small on this beam, which will be about 3.8m (12') above floor level.

The biggest router cutter I've found that would produce this moulding is the Trend Traditional Torus cutter which could be used to produce a 13.5mm (1/2") radius bead. That's better, but the sketch above is based on a 20mm (3/4") radius. This cutter is supposed to be used in a table, but I would be using it in a handheld router.

Anyone have any other ideas? One approach might be to find a way to establish two V grooves with a machine and then cut the bead with a block plane.

 

[Spectric]

If this is a traditional property then maybe fancy mouldings on beams would look odd, Is this not a job for a spook shave and a bit of muscle to just relieve the corners and give it that old look.

 

[Jacob]

Long for a single span, 2 at 11'6"presumably?
I'd look at sawing the quirk first with a hand held circular saw, however you finish it off. Gives something to work to and a guide
Could then do it with a router if you have the cutter, or if not then by hand; block plane on the outside radius and rebate plane to get into the quirk?

 

[eribaMotters]

What about cutting a square section rebate out then planting a moulding in place. You could rework a a pre made handrail moulding.

Colin

 

[mccpe]

If this is a traditional property then maybe fancy mouldings on beams would look odd, Is this not a job for a spook shave and a bit of muscle to just relieve the corners and give it that old look.

It is traditional, just trying to copy an original from 1650.

 

[williams1185]

draw the profile on the end first to see the shape and a combination of circular saw tilted to get the quirks and plane the round in by the time you find a cutter and the cost for a one off save a lot of messing about

 

[mccpe]

Long for a single span, 2 at 11'6"presumably?
I'd look at sawing the quirk first with a hand held circular saw, however you finish it off. Gives something to work to and a guide
Could then do it with a router if you have the cutter, or if not then by hand; block plane on the outside radius and rebate plane to get into the quirk?

Good idea about sawing the quirk, I was fixated on router/plane based solutions.

Span is 21'. This is for a 'plafond Francaise' similar to this:

Fairly lightweight and 16" square beams are more than adequate for the span.

This was replaced maybe 100 - 150 years ago and the replacement had a new pine beam, about 9"x12" section installed, and one original oak beam, about the same size. The replacement floor wasn't like the above, it used a lot of lime/sand above plastered timbers, then tile. The beams are undersized for the floor that was in place, so they sagged and the floor above was then repaired with a new layer of lime/sand to fill the dip. Both beams ultimately failed.

 

[mccpe]

draw the profile on the end first to see the shape and a combination of circular saw tilted to get the quirks and plane the round in by the time you find a cutter and the cost for a one off save a lot of messing about

Good idea about sawing the quirk. The moulding will need to stop before the ends, but that shouldn't be a problem. Saw and plane sounds like the way to go.

 

[mccpe]

What about cutting a square section rebate out then planting a moulding in place. You could rework a a pre made handrail moulding.

Colin

I had this in the back of my mind for a fall back solution, but it doesn't seem as nice as making a moulding on the beam.

 

[Spectric]

So this is not just a beam in an old cottage but more of what you find in a paneled stately home.

This is a good idea

What about cutting a square section rebate out then planting a moulding in place

 

[mccpe]

So this is not just a beam in an old cottage but more of what you find in a paneled stately home.

Yes, more like this:

That's an example from about 1500. You can see the counter-beams above have the same detail on them.

I did think about cutting a section out and planting a moulding on, but it this will be lightly stained and clear finished so it may look like an obvious hack. Also the quirks would end up much deeper than the original examples I've seen.

 

[Spectric]

It looks more french than english. Another idea is could you cut a rebate and then fit a dowel rod which would allow a large radius . You could shape the rebate before fiting the dowel rod.

 

[Adam W.]

That's a traditional English bead from the 16th century and before, which would have been run by hand. It's a fairly simple process to stick, but requires human energy, a couple of old tools and a bit of savvy.

It may be too analogue for your tastes however.

Up in the atic at St. Pauls you can see it on the posts to ease the arris.

 

[sawtooth-9]

Might be a job for a small adze.
Originally, these beams were probably dressed and the radius cut with an adze before the beam put into place.
Also an adze cut will look far more original

 

[Ollie78]

Try these Beading Large
the one at the bottom is 19mm.

or

Maybe do two grooves with a 30 degree V cutter to establish the outside edges, run a roundover both ways to get the outer radius, then you only have to remove the inner section of the radius bit. maybe a scratch stock..


Ollie

 

[sawtooth-9]

Has everyone forgotten what an adze is ?
When I was much younger, I was taught to use an adze to dress REALLY hard wood to repair bridges in the west of New South Wales.
Cut the trees, split to about the right size and then dress down with an adze.
I had to put both feet int a steel drum ( to avoid cutting tendons ! ) until I learnt how to use the tool.
This is how the old beams were cut.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

Has everyone forgotten what an adze is ?

No, it's just no one has the time to carefully carve a moulding with a less than ideal tool.

The easiest way to achieve it would probably be a cutter ground to the correct shape or shapes since it's quite large, fitted to a Stanley 45.

 

[Adam W.]

Sorry forgot to say how I would do it.

Cut the quirk by plough plane or circular saw, then you need to start planing the bead by opening the quirk on the bead side with a rebate plane, just enough to get your jack plane started.

Then it's a matter of running down the bead, planing facets and rounding it over. Finish with a large beading plane or coach makers beading tool, which is like a large spokeshave with two profiled cutters.

It doesn't give you that coved quirk that is a feature of work from 1500, which you may be after. I think they might have been using large tools that looked like coach makers tools to make this stuff and it's the subject of my next research project, so I'll be interested to hear how you get on.

Here's a tiny one and the tool which made it......

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/joiner-made-shaves.140584/
Hope that helps.

 

[mr rusty]

When I have to do some moulding that I don't have cutters for quite often an old wooden hollow plane(s) comes out (I have 3-4 I use fairly regularly). One I use often was made around 1788. I smile every time I use it - it pre-dates Trafalgar!

 

[johnnyb]

am I missing something?