Advice on a purchased Startrite table saw

[redp]

I've owned a budget Titan table saw for a while which I find useful but a nuisance as it is not accurate. Having read lots of threads on here I clicked buy on https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/387712735624 yesterday.

I'm trying to get my thoughts straight before arranging with the seller to collect. I've got @deema's very useful checklist from https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/startrite-table-saw-buying-advice.118504/post-1536101 saved to run through when I go to collect. I'm comfortable with electronics and electrical so converting 3 phase to 1 phase doesn't worry me too much. However the actual move I'm not so sure about.

Pallet deliveries are a bad option as I have a long hardcore drive with a reasonably steep turn and then a tarmac slope down to the garage (at my old house I saw how difficult pallet trucks are on slopes when a driver lost control of a pallet of bricks trying to get it onto the lift and dumped the bricks all over the road).

A man with a van could be an option, and I've also thought about the removal company I used to move house recently.

I could collect it myself - van hire, van-with-a-tail-lift hire or in my car. I'm concerned about moving that amount of weight - looking at the old startrite brochures/manuals I think it's about 200kg all in.

Obviously it makes sense to reduce the weight as much as is sensible before moving it. I think that the extension bars/legs remove easily, as does the fence and any other accessories. But I'm not sure if the sliding table is easy to take off? Anything else I've missed?

Once I've got the weight down do you think I would be able to move it on a sack truck (I have one rated to 600lbs/275kg) with straps around it to secure it to the truck? A second person to help steady it?

Or, I try to take it apart further (I think this means removing the table from the body?) but not sure how easy/wise this (I think I've seen some comments saying it's fine, others saying it isn't)? At this point I'd assume that two people could lift the table and the cabinet by hand? Possibly into a car.

Any suggestions on tools to take to remove things or that help with manouvering?

Any advice, thoughts, comments or suggestions are appreciated!

 

[Sideways]

(In reverse order)
Extension bars off.
Outrigger off.
Sliding table off.

None of those are difficult and it will both lighten the machine and make it more compact.
Wind the blade down below the table to lower the motor and centre of gravity
I'd leave the top alone - that's a step too far.
A sack truck isn't the tool that @deema or myself tend to reach for but hooked under one side or the back, and strapped around it might give you good wheels on one side.
Rollers are amazingly useful and as low tech as it goes.
A friend, that second pair of hands, is the most important thing of all.
Something to smooth the hardcore drive may be essential - 4 decently long planks or an 8x4 sheet of 16mm mdf ripped in half lengthways just to give a smoother surface under your wheels or rollers.

A van to move the machine, not a car.
Tail lift makes life easier.

Some machines can be moved in a transit size van. Place the machine at the back with a plank across the top of the bumper. Tilt is backwards until the rear edge of the table is just on the floor of the van, then you 2 or 3 people lift the base of the saw so that it pivots A over T into the van end ends up upside down. Reverse to take it out.
I can't remember the feel of this saw well enough to know if that would work for it.

 

[Sideways]

Oh, and not a man with a van.
They won't be expert so too big a risk of them breaking something.
Do it yourself. You are motivated to get it right. You'll take time and think about it and care over it. Not rushing or working in rain, bad light and when you are tired are important to avoiding mistakes.

Worst case, you put a double layer of plastic or a screwfix tarpauline over it, tie it round and it has a night outside then you finish the move the next day.

 

[deema]

@Sideways has nailed it with how to move it. They arn’t too heavy. The bars are held on by cap head screws so you need a set of both imperial and metric Allen keys……almost certain it will be imperial. Be VERY careful with the two handles (rise and fall / tilt) they are cast iron and any bang and they will break. Best to take them off. So have a socket set handy (imperial and metric)

The siding table comes off easily, it’s designed so it can be removed at anytime. There are two versions, the more modern with bearings that run in the rail and the older (less desirable as there is no adjustment when the casting gets worn). If it has the bearings watch when you drop the table down off the outrider arm that it’s not going to foul the bar supports, it destroys the bearings. Just irritating as the bearings cost about £1 each. Buy about 10, as you will destroy a few……we all have.

There are 4 bolts and two roll pins holding the table to the base. If memory serves they are 5/8 WW…..just about all the old saws are 5/8 WW! You need a set of parallel punches to take the roll pins out. If taking the top off, take the motor off, just 4 bolts, again I think 5/8 WW.

You can lift off the top on your own if your fit and string and know how to lift. But an easy two man lift. Now, just a word of caution. Getting the base back into the top can involve a lot of swearing. Often the thin plate base has had a bump or two and will be distorted. So, it really can fight you to get the 4 bolts back in. It’s not a reason not to take the top off, just it can be very concerning that you’ve done something wrong when it really doesn’t seem as though it fits any more. I would take the top off and service / replace the spindle bearings as a matter of course.

The main four issues with this saw are: (in addition to my list you linked)
1. The universal joint is broken ( I think it’s in the tilt, but could be on the rise and fall) usually due to sawdust built up on the threads and an idiot trying to move it with brute strength. If it is unless you can make a new one / fix it walk away, I’m not aware of a direct replacement.
2. Slop in the trunnion. This can be adjusted assuming nine of the three pawls are broken…….push and pull on the blade from side to side fully raised to detect if it’s sloppy. Good negotiation point
3. Fence doesn’t clamp properly. Usually caused by a build up of crud in the mechanism. Look inside the casting where the lever is to make sure that all three levers are in place and not broken / bent if it won’t clamp solid. Easy fix, but another good negotiation point.
4. Micro adjust cog is worn out / won’t engage properly with the rail. If it’s not worn out…..you’ve found a unicorns cousin

A bonus check is verify that the small brass wheel on the fence is present near the claw. It runs on the table to allow the fence to move smoothly. It will work without it, but it’s not as smooth or nice. They are almost certain to be seized with crud….easy to fix if it’s present / doesn’t have a flat spot as a result of rubbing in the table.

A lot of spares can be bought from an Alan at https://sharkbandsawblades.co.uk/startrite_machines.html. He was involved with Startrite in someways and I understand has full sets of drawings to which he makes parts from. Not cheap, but good quality and far cheaper than the other alternative https://startrite-spares.co.uk/?gad...zEGFBrIWqc1RDEIojB3RkrwhfyyB8Q_BoCzFcQAvD_BwE Thinking about it he might have the universal joint I mentioned earlier and said walk away if broken! I’d find out if he does and the price in case it’s broken!

 

[deema]

Just had a look at the eBay link. That looks a lovely saw and appears to have been very well looked after. It is the more modern version with bearings on the sliding table. The bearings still have the brass covers on them which is very rare, they have usually been bent / broken off. Be careful when taking the sliding table off not to bend them.
It’s not showing the sliding table fence, which I should take every effort to try and get. It should have two fold over stops. It’s a simple but very elegant design and incredibly useful. You don’t need to remove it to drop down the table when not is use.

It has the legs on the extended bars, that’s rare, again usually lost. The sliding table bar should have two screw in end caps with o rings to act as bumpers. They just screw off by hand (hopefully) to remove the sliding table. Take some penetrating oil, as getting the 5 extension bars to come apart may take some effort. There are holes in the bars to help tighten / release them. Please don’t use water pump pliers, mole grips, etc to try and remove them, it will chew up the bar surface and the fence won’t slide over it properly or smoothly.

It’s missing the cover for the base under the sliding table. You often need to remove it as this is where the chute slide directs the saw dust to. Again, just see if they have it anywhere. Its aesthetics as opposed to must have.

Youve bought an absolute bargain. If it’s a bag of nails, it’s worth far more than you’ve paid for it breaking it up for spares! Let’s put it this way, if I’d bought it I’d be taking it away with me regardless of any faults I found.

 

[deema]

Last thoughts, I’d swap the motor for a 2.2KW single phase cap start, cap run jobby, it’s a little underpowered with the standard motor, and a 90L frame fits within the machine and covers. It will add a lot of value to the machine coupled with a new starter with an over current. I usually fit TEC motors, very good and had them used in commercial as well as hobby shops.

 

[redp]

@Sideways invaluable advice on moving. You've confirmed my instinct - that moving it myself is going to be better and thanks for the tip about rollers and not trying to take apart too far to move it. I'm feeling a lot more confident now.

@deema yes, I thought it looked in excellent condition for the price - I'd noticed that the sliding table fence was missing but not the cover for the base. And I'm relieved you think it's worth it - always a bit nail biting buying something unseen.

Thanks also for the advice about replacing the motor - I now need to do some reading up on electric motors!

Now I need to go away and find some friends who can help I'll post some pics etc once I've collected for sure.

 

[Sideways]

Get a four pack of ratchet straps, and even a couple of 1m and couple of 2m webbing slings. 1 ton rated, purple ones from screwfix. They are straight with a sewn loop each end. Only a few pounds each. These will let you strap the saw to the anchor points inside the van. One diagonally out and down is enough from each corner.
You don't have 2 tons of top heavy machine so no need to do this

Also, if there are two of you and the machine is only 200kg. You keep one side or one corner on the ground. That leaves 100kg to dead lift between two. 50kg each. You will find you can walk the saw alternating between two corners for short distances. Like from the tail lift into the middle of the Luton. Small moves with rests ensures you have plenty of thinking time and can get in a good position with good balance for each lift.