Advice needed: foul water seeping from neighbour's house into my subfloor

[ajs]

The drainage company who are currently here doing the clean up work have verified that water is seeping in from next door. I'm going to ask them for a copy of the report to show my neighbour.

Good. If the report is clear there shouldn't be any issue. You'll generally find the the drainage co will not send you a copy of the report, after all it was commissioned by the insurers or their claims handlers, they will send you a copy of the report if you ask for it. It may need redacting first for financial information but I always applied as light a touch as possible there since it helps settle any argument: "you can see we've spent £1500 engaging a technical expert for reports. They say xxx. You're welcome to dispute that but it has to be evidence of equivalent standing - 'my mate down the pub says...' doesn't cut it."

The insurance's claim handling company said that Its all down to me to sort it out with the neighbour... but I have asked AXA to call me directly to discuss what should happen next.

The handlers should be in touch. When they can see the report they should advise how the claim is to move forward but won't be drawn into a speculative dispute between you and a neighbour without supporting evidence.

I have buoldings insurance, but not contents insurance.

It's buildings that is key here. The only contents I'd be aware of for a claim like this is carpets.

 

[Spectric]

Have they located the actual problem, no point in cleaning up until the problem has been found and rectified.

 

[ajs]

So, I got through to both AXA directly and the claim handler. Both said they will not get involved and will want me to deal with my neighbour to get it fixed.
I was surprised, because it means they won't claim their costs back from the neighbour - but this is what they said...

Sorry, it seems our last messages crossed. This doesn't ring true to me, it's simply wasting money if the underlying issue is not addressed. I can only say wait until they have the reports. As I said above I can well understand them not wishing to be drawn into a neighbourly dispute in the absence of evidence. Now the source has been identified I would say give it a few days for the report to be compiled and reach the handler.

Do you have legal expenses cover on your policy, it's a different section to liability cover. If so cover against your neighbour's landlord is a slam dunk. In its absence I'd still expect them to intervene, in part it does depend on the mindset of the underwriters though.

Who is the underwriter for your policy? I never dealt with AXA policies so I'm not sure if they underwrite their own. Also out of interest who are the handling company?

If you continue to have problems after the handler has read the report by all means PM me and I'll advise how to proceed depending on precisely what they say.

 

[sammy.se]

Sorry, it seems our last messages crossed. This doesn't ring true to me, it's simply wasting money if the underlying issue is not addressed. I can only say wait until they have the reports. As I said above I can well understand them not wishing to be drawn into a neighbourly dispute in the absence of evidence. Now the source has been identified I would say give it a few days for the report to be compiled and reach the handler.

Fair enough - I will wait until they have the reports before reaching out to them again, but they did instruct me to talk to my neighbour, so I will gently start that as well...

Do you have legal expenses cover on your policy, it's a different section to liability cover. If so cover against your neighbour's landlord is a slam dunk. In its absence I'd still expect them to intervene, in part it does depend on the mindset of the underwriters though.

Sadly not :-(
I've never needed to claim on Home Insurance until now - it's all new to me. I will get Legal Cover next time.
If the report is clear, and my insurance accepts the report, I may have to pay out of my own pocket if the landlord is uncooperative, and then try and get my money back via court... But this is an escalation I don't want to think about right now.
Out of interest, is legal expense within a claim (i.e. not a random other legal expense) covered under the claim itself?

Who is the underwriter for your policy? I never dealt with AXA policies so I'm not sure if they underwrite their own. Also out of interest who are the handling company?

Axa themselves.
The handling company is DASA (DASA – Drainage Advisory Services and Services) which have not been very good to be honest.

If you continue to have problems after the handler has read the report by all means PM me and I'll advise how to proceed depending on precisely what they say.

Thank you - I appreciate that. I will take you up on that

 

[sammy.se]

Have they located the actual problem, no point in cleaning up until the problem has been found and rectified.

They did.
The clean up work done was for months of pooled water and sludge, which is gone now. So it was still worth doing, but now of course the root cause (water seeping from neighbour) needs to be sorted in order to prevent another build up.

 

[Spectric]

So where was it coming from? Was it just water or grey water?

 

[sammy.se]

So where was it coming from? Was it just water or grey water?

Grey water, seeping through the brick and lime mortar footings, on the dividing wall between my house and my neighbour's house (it's a Victorian terraced house). It pools in a corner under my dining room floor and stinks up the house.
It really really smells - might even be some sort of sewage water as well as grey water... not sure.

Oh, BTW - The neighbour's house is divided into two flats, owned by different landlords. If the leak is from upstairs, then there is an added complication!

 

[Spectric]

Sounds like you have a nightmare situation. A house divided into two flats, a common place for leaks are shower trays and I would think an upstairs leak might have been spoted by the downstairs occupant by now, either way the actual leak needs fixing and not just trying to stop it getting under your floor otherwise it could well find another place to reveal itself.

 

[sammy.se]

Sounds like you have a nightmare situation. A house divided into two flats, a common place for leaks are shower trays and I would think an upstairs leak might have been spoted by the downstairs occupant by now, either way the actual leak needs fixing and not just trying to stop it getting under your floor otherwise it could well find another place to reveal itself.

I know :-(
I hoping that
a) The landord(s) will cooperate
b) Axa will change their mind and support me (they currently say they won't, but I will wait and see after they receive the reports - as per the advice above)

 

[Bingy man]

It sounds to me that it’s in everyone’s interest to get to the root cause of the problem as at least 2 properties are involved and there could be potentially more . I’d not wait to long as until the source of the leak is identified and repaired the problem will only get worse. It’s a health hazard and as above I’d be contacting your local council’s environmental health department as a matter of urgency. Not surprised at your insurer as in their eyes the problem is not in your property. Another issue here which can cause delays are shared drains/ sewers . Had a similar issue a few years back albeit with a lead water main leaking in my customers garden. She is house bound and had no insurance /the main was shared with next door ( tenanted property) landlord said as there was no problem in his property he didn’t want to know . So long story/short I ripped out the main to my customers property and replaced with 25mm plastic and used a leadloc to reconnect the tenants next door .

 

[MikeJhn]

To the OP any work on, or affects, a party wall has a legal requirement for a "Party wall surveyor" who works for the "Act" and neither party, they will sort out the liability issues and the work required.

 

[MikeJhn]

Did this ever get sorted? Could be useful to know for anyone else in the same or similar situation.

 

[baldkev]

Did this ever get sorted? Could be useful to know for anyone else in the same or similar situation.

Interesting mike, as op now has a rat issue in another thread.... connected?

 

[MikeJhn]

I would certainly go down that route for it to be connected, so it becomes an addition to the insurance claim?

 

[ajs]

I would certainly go down that route for it to be connected, so it becomes an addition to the insurance claim?

If you can it's always the best way, then there's only a single excess to pay and only a single claim on file. In this case it would be a necessity since most policies have specific exclusions about vermin if not any form of animal damage.

However, if it can be showing it's the leak that is the underlying issue (proximate cause in the jargon) the rats may well be covered as a consequence.

 

[MikeJhn]

The rat problem would be a Consequential loss claim, if it can be proved that the foul water ingress allowed the rats to access the underfloor, but all this should be through the "Party Wall Surveyor"

 

[llywmog]

Has the landlord not had the problem checked out yet? Sounds like the clay waste pipe under the floor is cracked. That's what happened in a previous Victorian property of mine. I had a lovely time digging up the kitchen floor, standing in and shovelling the most disgusting stuff. Insurance company wouldn't pay for anything.

 

[sammy.se]

Did this ever get sorted? Could be useful to know for anyone else in the same or similar situation.

This is still ongoing. What a painful saga. A specialist hygiene company is coming next week to rip up my ground floor, remove contaminated subfloor soil and clean everything. It will take a week.

The root cause was a broken gulley in the neighbour's garden, flooding their subfloor and into mine. The landlord was slow to fix, but I persisted and got there in the end. Such a mentally stressful time tbh.

I would certainly go down that route for it to be connected, so it becomes an addition to the insurance claim?

Interesting mike, as op now has a rat issue in another thread.... connected?

Is certainly a coincidence, and likely connected. But I'm so fatigued by this whole process I just want to catch the rat, block the holes and get on with it. I will still let the insurance company know in case the rat issue escalates. When they do the subfloor cleaning next week I will look for holes and block them... hopefully.

If you can it's always the best way, then there's only a single excess to pay and only a single claim on file. In this case it would be a necessity since most policies have specific exclusions about vermin if not any form of animal damage.

However, if it can be showing it's the leak that is the underlying issue (proximate cause in the jargon) the rats may well be covered as a consequence.

The rat problem would be a Consequential loss claim, if it can be proved that the foul water ingress allowed the rats to access the underfloor, but all this should be through the "Party Wall Surveyor"

Thanks for the advice. I will definitely let the insurers know...

Has the landlord not had the problem checked out yet? Sounds like the clay waste pipe under the floor is cracked. That's what happened in a previous Victorian property of mine. I had a lovely time digging up the kitchen floor, standing in and shovelling the most disgusting stuff. Insurance company wouldn't pay for anything.

Broken gulley in neighbours garden (clay or cast iron, not sure). Landlord was slow. It was an arduous experience to say the least.

 

[sammy.se]

Update on this horrible saga:

A professional cleaning company cleaned ny subfloor, over three days. A really thourough job, and a hearth-type structure of clay and sand under the stairs was completely taken out. Now, so far, no smell. I will wait a few weeks to confirm no smell is leeching in from next door and it's drying OK.

Now I need to worry about sorting new underfloor insulation and decorating etc.
This is tedious.

 

[Adam W.]

That's such a drag, hopefully you've got it sorted out now.