Advice/Input Wanted

[richarnold]

I left school at 16, not really knowing what I wanted to do. I got an apprenticeship with a local building firm as a joiner. after a few years i moved on to a succesion of different jobs, cabinet making, and joinery, mostly. I then ended up as a musical instument restorer for about 6yrs, but was made redundant, tried my hand at teaching adults with learning difficulties for a couple of years, then 10 years ago i took the plunge, and set my own workshop up. I was 40 at the time, but in hind site i wish i had done it much earlier. 10 years on, and i'm still surviving, although this last year has been the toughest yet. On the down side, I live like a pauper, and would probably earn more stacking shelves in a supermarket, but on the plus side, I don't have to compromise on the quality of what I produce, can have a day off when i choose to ( usually coincides with a David Stanley tool auction!), and I get to make things how I want to, and not be dictated to by some employer who hasn't got a clue about what he's going on about.

 

[powertools]

I enjoy my woodwork but it is my hobby. Could I make a living out of it or would I want to? I think not if I had the qualifications that most you seem to have I would pursue that career and stiill enjoy my hobby.

 

[dickm]

From your comments about the research you have done (which sounds all too familiar from my 45 years in academe ) you sound as though you really still have enthusiasm for chemistry. As others have said, "sticking to your last" will probably give you a better income and enough job satisfaction to see you through. But, if you want to take a gamble, do it now before you have too many other commitments.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

First of all, I salute your energy and effort in getting yourself into a position to be able to make choices - many end up giving themselves no choices at all.

I followed an academic path into a career in engineering design, and my experience is that it can be intensely rewarding and deeply disappointing in almost equal measure at various times. The engineering problem solving is totally absorbing, the politics and hassle inseperable from working in large teams and under pressure of time and budget can be vile, especially if you end up working for (shall we say) less than totally honourable employers. That, however, is the nature of life. Whatever you do, there will be good bits and bad bits.

You mention the Edward Barnsley Foundation. That's one of the premier training opportunities in fine furniture making in the world. If you win that place, it will be the furniture equivalent of an Oxbridge degree in some other fields - but the competition for places will be VERY stiff, and you are still left with a qualification that only opens doors to moderately paid positions.

Following the academic route, either into a research career, an industrial career or teaching is likely to pay much better, and probably open more (and more varied) doors. There's no telling how things will work out over the next few decades, and it's already clear that the old employment certainties have changed; most people change jobs - even change careers altogether - several times in a working lifetime, now. The old 'jobs for life' are few and far between, now. If you can follow the chemistry route and, over time, save some money, you will give yourself far more flexibility in what you can do with later life. If you never have any meaningful savings, you have to do whatever you can to pay the bills - you never have any flexibility in life. You could change course from a chemistry-based career to a woodworking one in later life if you wished, but going the other way would probably not be possible.

Whatever you end up doing, good luck!

 

[Jelly]

But, if you want to take a gamble, do it now before you have too many other commitments.

That's the only reason I'm seriously considering it, if the apprenticeship goes well then I can take it further; if for whatever reason i can't or dont want to proceed I could treat it a bit like a gap year, only less pretentious.

You mention the Edward Barnsley Foundation. That's one of the premier training opportunities in fine furniture making in the world. If you win that place, it will be the furniture equivalent of an Oxbridge degree in some other fields - but the competition for places will be VERY stiff, and you are still left with a qualification that only opens doors to moderately paid positions.

That's the rub, in order to competitive I'll have to devote some serious time and effort to the pieces I want to present to them; along with a not insubstantial amount of cash for materials.

It also looks like I'll be moving back to uni some time soon, so whilst i'll have the time, and could find the money; I'll lose access to my workshop...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Don't forget that many people in all kinds of design have wealthy families behind them, and that if they haven't, someone else will be creaming the profits off.

 

[rich.h]

Whilst I have experience in neither of the two industries you are looking at I can offer some help. Yes an academic career will offer you a healthy income and affluent lifestyle compared to the craft route. However if you take the craft route in as far as finding work with a very small firm (1-3 people tops) you will gain an enormous amount of real old school "apprentice" knowledge.

This can then be applied towards self employment at a later date should you wish it. At that stage you have to ask yourself what makes you happy in life, for me it came down to the realisation that I really couldn't give a stuff about most of the things that money provided me. The old adage of "you can't take it with you" became clear to me when I decided within a very close margin exactly how much money I wanted to earn, and more importantly if I was able to earn that in less than a 9-5 week then what other things can I do with my time to offset some of my living costs. While I didn't go full hippie I have dipped my toes into that lifestyle somewhat as it allows me to only have to work a very short week for my life essentials and if I choose to spend the rest of my time doing something that costs nothing I have that option. For me that choice in life has been a massive burden lifter compared to back in the world of an employee where the vast majority are chasing that end of month carrot.

Of course all of this means nothing unless you have some idea of what you want out of life in general and what things make you happy.

 

[Jelly]

It's not really got much clearer... I decided that I would probably not be competitive for the apprenticeship scheme I initially mentioned, certainly not this year, not least as I need to concentrate on my degree, I also realised that I absolutely couldn't stick an MSc right now, I've given all I can give to full-time education for the time being.

To complicate things further, the area of chemistry I've specialised in is in relatively low demand right now, so In terms of chem jobs it looks like initially I'd have to take an internship or HND level technical position in order to prove I had adaptability and transferable skills... Whereas I have significant experience and good references in the timber trades, not to mention a natural enthusiasm....

But as a graduate, I would not eligible to be part of an apprenticeship scheme funded through the skills councils and as someone who's old enough to be entitled to both the full adult minimum wage and the new mandatory workplace pension; I'm not convinced that I could persuade a perspective employer to take me on when they're having to pay me more than most other applicants and then pay the full cost of my training on top!

The third option, I can go back to working at the sawmill (which In lieu of another job coming up, I will be doing as of june) and work towards an assessed qualification which would prove my worth to perspective employers.

If the mill would be willing to support me in doing the practical elements of an NVQ-L3 in Wood Machining that would be ideal. If not I've been examining the Institute of Carpenters awards, I feel that I could definitely complete the Intermediate award and that potentially be able to go directly for the Licentiate in a reasonably short timescale if I was to seek out opportunities to gain more experience on site (the element which I'd be lacking at currently); Having read the syllabus for the Membership award, that might be achievable, but would require a significant self-study commitment to get up to scratch for some of the technical areas which I am unfamiliar with, given how burnt out I feel with learning right now, it's probably too far-reaching an aim

Then finally, I could start looking for graduate programmes/jobs in the timber industry, i'd be better placed with a forestry or engineering degree on the operational side of things, but can try to maximise the impact of my experience and knowledge with respects to both timber conversion and value added operations.

SO... I might end up working as a chemist, I might get lucky with an apprenticeship (ideally advanced craft leading to NVQ L3&4 qualis), I might have to slog my guts out working, training and possibly even studying to get a bit of paper to prove I could be a valuable addition to a firm, in order to get the experience and colleague input that would take me from alright, to excellence. Tune in next time as it's still all to play for in "What in god's name am I doing with my life?"

 

[DMF]

Tune in next time as it's still all to play for in "What in god's name am I doing with my life?"

Hi Jelly,

that's the important bit! At least you know it's still all to play for and your thinking about how to achieve something no matter if you know exactly what it is right now Sometimes it's frustrating but if you've got your head down then something good will happen. Nobody is going to be able to give you your answers when you've got a brain for yourself, just keep it rolling!

FWIW i've had to move from groundworks (a job i loved) to i don't know what yet because of a bone condition, so far all i know is it has to be office based and so i've not long completed a BSc(Hons) in business studies, got to help me somewhere along the line right (hammer) Between op's i'm managing to get some low level admin work just to try and show people i can be a office boy as well as a loony groundworker, on the plus side i've just bought my first plane, a new old stanley and frankly the world can go hang right now because i've got some shavings and firewood to make!

Enjoy the weekend,

Dean

 

[beech1948]

Jelly,

I have stayed out of the debate deliberately to gasin some distance and reflection time. Giving advice is often ruinous to relationships and can so often be wrong.

I stand by the initial message to you and I still think that the Chemistry degree is a way to go. If you do well you could apply to consultancies, London based banks, finance firms etc etc.

I am now 64.7yrs old and I remember well my first crisis of wondering about what I would do and achieve. I spent at least 12 months agonising over what I was doing.

If I were you knowing what I now know I would simply stop the agonising. I would ask my self the following questions:-

1) What do I want

2) When I've got it what will I have

3) Ask question 1 again and repeat the cycle 4-5-6 times.

When you come to World Peace, Love for all of mankind then stop and realise you have gone too far and start again.

If you don't get it the first time then go find a colleague who has some knowledge of NLP and ask for help.

Knowing what you want is important because you can set goals and move a plan forward to achieve it.

Its likely you will become self employed at some time given the way society is changing but its a state of mind as well as a way of paying taxes.

As you ask yourself about what you want remember that the world is a big place, your skills may fit in the US/Hong Kong/Australia/Switzerland etc etc so stay flexible to wider views of the outcome.

Good luck
Al

 

[Benchwayze]

Nothing to do with the thread Jelly, but I like your signature. Reminds me of 'Oddball's' mixed metaphor,..
'Nobody said nuthin' about lockin' horns with no Tigers.' and 'The only way I can keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me!' I 'really' dig that film.

Best of luck in your career choice whatever you decide.

 

[Togalosh]

Is doing what you love as a job all it's cracked up to be?[/list]

100% yes !

If you do not really enjoy your job it becomes a chore, a burden & spending most of your days & the best years of your life doing something that at best gives you not much pleasure is a waste of life & will probably make you miserable (I did that)... but you will need to pay your bills & it's in your late 20's (or when you have wife n kids, or fed up with being poor) when that starts to be more pressing... but I'd say follow your heart while you can.

Those that love their jobs & are hard working & dedicated are the ones most likely to succeed..but nothing in life is guarenteed.

Good luck.

 

[Lons]

Hi Jelly

Not an easy decision to decide with your head or your heart!

Your head must surely tell you to take the academic route is it is relatively easy for you to follow at the minute whilst still working with wood whilst later in life you will find it much more difficult and likely impossible once you have family commitments.
Your qualifications and early skills experience would be transferable to other industries and allow you to possibly find something to your liking, the opportunity to work globally if desired and as time goes on, continue your woodworking, perhaps even building a part time business to make the leap if you wished in the future. A decent financial package does after all allow you the luxury of buying decent tools and machinery to pursue the woodwork side of your life.

If you take the woodworking route, you definitely won't be so financially secure unless self employed (which brings its own issues). You will be at the mercy of a labour industry where anyone can set up as a "craftsman" with relative ease and if redundant will be competing with many for the few jobs available.

To put it bluntly, relatively easy to move from a chemist / scientist to woodworker but extremely difficult to go the other way. To me it's a no brainer really.

To put that into perspective, I didn't take a masters (and have always slightly regretted it), I forged a career in sales and marketing management and was very successful but never enjoyed the work. It gave me the opportunity however to enjoy my time off turning, carving and making furniture for fun without worrying about the cost of tools and materials and in later life when the kids were gone and the mortgage paid, I turned my back and started my business. - 15 years ago.

A major crossroad in your life - don't leap into it lightly but best wishes whichever way you go.

Bob