About Time We Had a Mystery Tool

[bugbear]

I have a G Tummon from White's Directory 1901, at No 24, Ditchingham St
but his job is only described as "manager"

A Coal merchant at Park Station called John Tummon.

(all from http://www.historicaldirectories.org)

No "perfect" hit, though.

BugBear

 

[mudman]

Hi guys,

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, been a bit busy lately.

Mignal,
Thanks for posting this over the pond, some interesting responses. I never thought of gunmakers. I shall have to ask my brother-in-law next time I see him. He's from over there and apprenticed as a gunsmith so you never know he may have a view.

Bugbear,

No, definitely not sharp, not sure if they ever have been. There are some scratch patterns on the base that appear to be file marks but they go end-to-end and side-to-side.

Took a few measurements tonight to see if that would help.

Dimensions in inches.
Length: 3 1/8
Width: 1
Narrows to 5/32 on the top.
Teeth: 19/32 long.
1" to the top
All the teeth are uniform in length.

Angles.

Teeth slope backwards at 117 degrees.
Looking at the front end of the tool, left side of the triangle formed is an angle of 60 degrees, right side is 65 degrees.
Interestingly, the whole tool is skewed (if that is the correct term). If you take the front tooth as the baseline, then looking from above, the sides of the tool has rake to the left of 92 degrees from the baseline.

 

[mudman]

Mystery solved.

Did a bit of Googling after posting the last, and found this.

So looks like our American cousins were on the money.
I'm going to have to show my brother-in-law now and see if he recognises it. :wink:

Thanks everyone for your help. I'm really glad to know what it is. Now I have to work out what I can do with it, apart from making guns that is. :?

 

[mudman]

Here's another one from the same site: planemaker's float

It looks just like mine but strange looking teeth though.

 

[bugbear]

I don't think that's a planemaker's float... these have been discussed at length, and can still be purchased from LN and C&W.

They look nothing like the tool on the Dutch website (or your tool).

http://www.planemaker.com/sample/floats/fltindex.html

(C & W are experts - if they say these are "proper" floats, they ARE!)

If your tool has never had sharp teeth, I don't see how it can be a cutting tool.

I'm still struggling with the designation. Don't forget that mistaken identification can happen on antique web sites too, either as honest mistakes, or optimistic labelling.

(an amazing number of common files and rasps get labelled as "rare plane making floats")

BugBear

 

[mudman]

I don't think that's a planemaker's float... these have been discussed at length, and can still be purchased from LN and C&W.

They look nothing like the tool on the Dutch website (or your tool).

http://www.planemaker.com/sample/floats/fltindex.html

(C & W are experts - if they say these are "proper" floats, they ARE!)

If your tool has never had sharp teeth, I don't see how it can be a cutting tool.

I'm still struggling with the designation. Don't forget that mistaken identification can happen on antique web sites too, either as honest mistakes, or optimistic labelling.

(an amazing number of common files and rasps get labelled as "rare plane making floats")

BugBear

Bugbear,

I've seen those floats before and that is why I didn't think that it would be a planemaker's float. Is it not possible though that this could be a different sort of planemaker's float?

Not so sure if it's never had sharp teeth or not. It's definitely very blunt at the moment, but this may be because someone has been at it with a file. I started to see if I could bring it to some semblance of sharp last night. Started to level off the teeth as the end teeth had been filed down lower than the middle teeth (please don't tell me this is as it's supposed to be). Did this on abrasive paper and then polished up on a MDF wheel and polishing compound. The bottom looks nice and shiny now but it's still blunt. I'm thinking that attention to the inner faces of the teeth is required. I may have a go tonight.

 

[MIGNAL]

http://www.recorderhomepage.net/tools.html#Windway

You need to scroll down to 'windway cutter' and the toothbrush style of these cutters. Yours is not a windway cutter (unless it's for a huge Bass) but it does show how the teeth can be formed. These types of cutting or scraping tools were probably used by more disciplines of woodcraft than we realise. A friend of mine made a similar type of tool by setting 5 or 6 Stanley knife blades into a handheld wooden block, he used this as a type of cutter/scraper for fine tuning (tillering?) the Longbow that he had made.

 

[Alf]

A friend of mine made a similar type of tool by setting 5 or 6 Stanley knife blades into a handheld wooden block, he used this as a type of cutter/scraper for fine tuning (tillering?) the Longbow that he had made.

S'interesting - had he seen one of these I wonder? Just in passing - anyone tried one?

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

I note that all the (various and interesting) tools mentioned in this thread for which we have positive identification have either multiple narrow blades, cutting as a scraper, or "normal" teeth, like a rasp or a file.

This does not apply to the mystery tool.

BTW, I have skimmed Buck & Hickman 1935 conver to cover, and found nothing like the mystery tool.

BugBear (thinking hard, but still baffled).

 

[mudman]

Ooh, lots more to think about. Thanks for all your replies everyone.

However, one thing that I think I am coming around to is that it is a float of some sort. It seems to have been made for a specialised purpose, it is the purpose that is proving hard to track down.

After reading about the windway cautter, I was wondering if this should be sharpened as a scraper? Flattening it last night, I got the impression that the steel is not very hard (anyone know how I can test this?), I doubt it would be able to take or hold a very keen edge. Could it's use involve the turning of a burr on each tooth and then using it in a scraping action?
This may explain the state of the underside before I attacked it. Repeated removal of an old burr with a file as with a card scraper could explain what had happened to it.

So, I'm thinking that I might attempt to turn some burrs on the teeth tonight and see how it performs as a sort of scraper, has anyone got any thoughts on that. Would it be unadvisable?

Again, thanks for everyone's efforts to try to determine the tools usage. It has been an education so far that makes the 50p I paid for it well worth while.

 

[bugbear]

Flattening it last night, I got the impression that the steel is not very hard (anyone know how I can test this?), I doubt it would be able to take or hold a very keen edge.

Ah hah! Information!

Conclusion: it's either NOT a cutting tool, or it's not for cutting wood.

With the teeth as large as they are, and pointing away from the handle, I've never been happy with the rasp/float idea - it would skip and catch terribly.

BugBear

 

[mudman]

Flattening it last night, I got the impression that the steel is not very hard (anyone know how I can test this?), I doubt it would be able to take or hold a very keen edge.

Ah hah! Information!

Conclusion: it's either NOT a cutting tool, or it's not for cutting wood.

With the teeth as large as they are, and pointing away from the handle, I've never been happy with the rasp/float idea - it would skip and catch terribly.

BugBear

Bugbear,

Any idea how I can quantify 'not very hard'?
If it was used in a scraper fashion, would you want a really hard steel?

The other thing that intrigues me though is that it almost identical to this one from the Dutch site except for the curvature to the teeth. Including the swept-forwards teeth.

 

[bugbear]

The other thing that intrigues me though is that it almost identical to this one from the Dutch site except for the curvature to the teeth. Including the swept-forwards teeth.

Oh, no argument here - your tool is the same as that one. But I think the Dutch site has mis-ID'd their tool

BugBear

 

[mudman]

Oh, no argument here - your tool is the same as that one. But I think the Dutch site has mis-ID'd their tool

BugBear

Fair enough.
BTW, I tried a bit of a scratch test last night.
A mortice chisel will scratch it easily.
As will the blade of an engineer's square and a stanley knife.
Looking for something softer, a steel rule will scratch the metal as well.
Hmm, looking for something really soft, tried a pound coin, this would scratch it as well.
So, I think it is not very hard at all.

So, in the words of the late Viv Stanshall:

'It's blinking well baffling but to be more obtusely, buggered if I know. Yes, buggered if I know.'

 

[alg]

Whats all the fuss about,its quite obvious to me this is a "Go-NoGo" guage
for checking the castellations on a "Tolberone Bar"
Cheers
Alg

 

[bugbear]

On the gun-maker theory, I remembered this nice local company:

http://www.gallyon-and-sons.co.uk/

and emailed them...

Dear experts;

In an internet discussion forum, we have been trying to identify
a tool one of our members found at a sale.

It has been suggested that the tool is gun-related.

Could you give an opinion?

Dear Paul,

I have no idea, it looks more like a leather makers tool than anything to do with gunmaking.

BugBear

 

[Alf]

Dear Paul,

I have no idea, it looks more like a leather makers tool than anything to do with gunmaking.

Must be a galoot... :lol:

 

[Mirboo]

While we're on the topic of guns (kind of ), check out the prices of these ones. :shock:

 

[mudman]

Dear Paul,

I have no idea, it looks more like a leather makers tool than anything to do with gunmaking.

BugBear

Good lateral thinking there Bugbear, thanks for taking the time.
So I guess we can assume that it ain't for gunmaking.

Been searching leatherworking tools without much success. Anyone got a copy of Salaman's book on leatherworking tools?

I thought then that maybe bookbinding something similar?

 

[bugbear]

Good lateral thinking there Bugbear

Thanks for the thanks, but I don't think "asking an expert" is very lateral!!

BugBear