A business idea - Your thoughts

[shaun.0x53]

I'm going to use combination squares as an example here, but it could apply to other items.

Would you pay more money for a combination square, that has been checked/calibrated and issued with a certificate that shows that somebody has checked it against a known reference?

I bought a combination square recently and it was a poor do. It was a well known brand and it should be better than it is for the price it was at. I then started to think of the following. If I purchased cheaper squares, check them and adjusted them. Would people be willing to pay the extra for it. So for instance if I purchase a Chinese one for say £3.00 and do the adjusting and then sell it on for £10.00. Would people buy it?

I know that it's not too difficult to adjust them, but the point is when you purchase something, you expect it to be right. And unfortunately I feel that standards are slipping. It should be right, straight out of the box, should it not?

Your thoughts please.

 

[AJB Temple]

Addressing your example I would not pay you extra to adjust an inaccurate Chinese (or whatever) tool for me. Accuracy to the nth degree is not required for most woodworking. If I want high degrees of accuracy I will buy a certificated tool from a branded maker. If it does not meet the standards I would return it and rely on their guarantee and consumer rights act.

I think in any case you will struggle with a route to market as a reseller.

I do not agree really that standards are slipping, more that expectations are unrealistic: I doubt that many people expect a £3 Chinese made combi square to be equivalent to say a Starrett. When buying very cheap tools we tend to get what we pay for and most are not surprised by that.

There are instructions on line of how to true up things like combi squares. Eg: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to- ... on-square/

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

And AJB maybe right....on the other hand you may be right. My personal experience of marketing is that no one knows what response the market will give until its tested. This is of course why major corp's run pilots and tests in isolated locations like Australia.

Markets, people, ideas have a fickle and fleeting aspect to their nature so the only true way to know is to test, test, test. I suggest you try your idea out on e bay and see what response you get. Buy your Chaiwanese square and offer it with a defined tolerance off true and gauge the response before you invest funds you can ill afford.

 

[t8hants]

Any square thats needs to certified for use within a company, would need to be certified by the companies approved testers.
Outside I wouldn't pay extra for a mazac framed square, they are regarded as a disposable item.
If you know you need a square better than 'construction' grade, you want cast iron, and a properly etched blade, not photo etch that rubs off.
Silk purses out of lug-holes comes to mind

 

[MattRoberts]

If you could certify the *repeat* accuracy of such an item, then yes I'd pay more. However there's a reason why quality items are expensive - better materials, precision, craftsmanship etc.

But what you're talking about is essentially the Axminster business model. They buy Chinese mass produced products, but presumably they have more stringent quality and accuracy checks than some people, so they get a balance between affordability and quality / accuracy.

 

[lurker]

I imagine most folks do what I do

I have an accurate engineering square that I only use for checking the others
I know its accurate because I had it checked at work (we have a few million quids worth of calbration kit there)
ditto a straight edge

As AJB says mega accuracy is not needed, the usual get a known straight edge on some manmade board and do the flip over thing is a good enough confirmation. Actually its strange how many folks dont know this method.

Another thing. about 6 months ago I bought a 4 piece combination set I think it was a fiver!
Maybe rolson
and the angle bits are dead on, the ruler graduations are miles out but I wasnt bothered about that.
Its a good centre finder/depth stop/straight edge and square that I can sling about without worrying I'm damaging something of value.

 

[shaun.0x53]

Thanks for the responses. I think it's clear that this is not a good idea. My thinking was to take an already existing product and to refine to higher standards. I can't think of any other tools right now that would fit the bill.

 

[sunnybob]

As has been mentioned, how do you certify YOUR work?
I recently bought a 6" square. I asked the company for a certificate (even that is only to a UK BS number, which in itself doesnt demand an absolute square) They wanted an extra £20 for that, which was more than the square in the first place.

So i bought a standard one, did the flip check, and its better than my eyes can see.

so sorry, but dont take the idea to the dragons den.

 

[Racers]

I adjusted a cheap combination square once, it took me ages the square side was fairly easy to do but the mitre was out, so I had to file the body until it was correct which wasn't easy.

Pete

 

[mind_the_goat]

If you are able to do this relatively easily then why not give it a go. The difficult bit is finding the right channels to sell your items. ebay would be a start, and find some other forums with more lax rules on selling your stuff.
I suspect that there will be 2 groups of people, those who know they need to spend money to get an accurate tool, and will do their own checking to ensure said tool stays that way (few people have access to high end calibration kit), and those that probably never give it a thought, and often struggle to get good results. You need to aim at the second group, so you have to educate before you can sell. I'd say £10 for a square that has been checked is not bad at all, as long as there is confidence it will stay square.

 

[LancsRick]

When a steel engineering square can be had for relatively little money as a reference point, I guess I'd struggle to see the benefit in getting someone else to provide a combination square that has been checked against something I can do myself.

 

[RobinBHM]

If I wanted to do some accurate marking out, I wouldn't choose a combination square, moving parts mean they aren't very reliable and also only have a short face.

I use an engineering square for such marking and use a combination square mostly for parallel pencil lines.

 

[MIGNAL]

How much is it going to cost you to test this on ebay? Not a lot, either in time or money. I have my doubts that there will be great demand but you'll never really know until that test. This is not like sinking thousands of £££'s into equipment and materials , hoping that an idea pays off. Lot's of people lose their shirt that way. Your idea is extremely low risk. Not much to gain but it might increase the monthly tool fund a bit.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I imagine most folks do what I do

I have an accurate engineering square that I only use for checking the others
I know its accurate because I had it checked at work (we have a few million quids worth of calbration kit there)
ditto a straight edge

As AJB says mega accuracy is not needed, the usual get a known straight edge on some manmade board and do the flip over thing is a good enough confirmation. Actually its strange how many folks dont know this method.

Another thing. about 6 months ago I bought a 4 piece combination set I think it was a fiver!
Maybe rolson
and the angle bits are dead on, the ruler graduations are miles out but I wasnt bothered about that.
Its a good centre finder/depth stop/straight edge and square that I can sling about without worrying I'm damaging something of value.

Few people think to use the corner of a man made board for square, either. I have one of the dreadful yellow Stanley £9.99 squares from Screwfix. Infuriating as the screw is wrongly threaded for the job, it's too steep a thread - it's either so tight you can't move it or loose. But the thing itself is dead square against my M&W.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

As has been mentioned, how do you certify YOUR work?
I recently bought a 6" square. I asked the company for a certificate (even that is only to a UK BS number, which in itself doesnt demand an absolute square) They wanted an extra £20 for that, which was more than the square in the first place.

So i bought a standard one, did the flip check, and its better than my eyes can see.

so sorry, but dont take the idea to the dragons den.

Interestingly, at least afaik, the BS No. only guarantees the inside of the square not the outside. I don't know about others but I use the outside far more often.

 

[bugbear]

...even that is only to a UK BS number, which in itself doesn't demand an absolute square.

Absolute squares may exist in Euclid's elements, but not in the real world. All we have are close (and ever closer, if your pockets are deep enough) approximations.

BugBear