5k Challange

[GreenBoy]

Hi

I am sure this sort of thing has been covered here before but i though i might put a twist on things...

before i go any further i should point out this is nothing to do with running or other non workshop / shed based activity, so if you thought this was going to be one of those 'sponsor me' posts, breath easy people.

There are lots of threads on this and other woodworking sites that ask the question of what tools should i get if i am starting to get into wood working, and although the plea is sound and answers are good there is a tendency for people to suggest the latest tool they are dreaming about and thus the solutions aren't always practical (I wont mention the site but on one such thread the tools suggested - mostly table saws - were in excess of $3000 :shock: - which is in my view a professional tool and not back yard workshop one)

So to avoid this i am setting the following condition - £5k!

To help you set this into context i want you to imagine you have just lost your entire workshop content - large fire, or lost whilst moving etc, and the insurance has just settled with you for £5k and that is all you have to re kit out your workshop (lets assume you have this in place, and the tools are the last thing needed)

So what do you get?

I don't know about you but to me £5k is a lot of money, and i certainly don't have that sort of cash lying about, however from drooling over catalogus etc it would be very easy to spend this and much more. Much, much more!

Remember this is a full kit purchase so although you would obviously target the glitzy Incra fences and Festool domino jointer and a wood rat or two - if you have a prefence for a certain steel rule, or hammer let us know!

But - the idea is to kit out a workshop for £5k all in..... can it be done and have quality kit.

And dont forget the bench! :lol:

 

[StevieB]

Sure, it can be done. The answer you get and the options on offer to you however will depend to a large degree on what type of woodworker you are/want to be and how much of a hand tool v machine tool preference you have. No two people will give you the same answer. For some it will be a selection of planes and hand saws, for others a lathe and little else, for others still a good TS and then a few bits and bobs.

I presume you are asking as an academic exercise to see what people would say rather than because you have 5k burning a hole in your pocket, but if it is the latter then we need more info before we can offer advice.

Steve.

 

[wizer]

oh god I'm not going to list the whole lot. But with 5k in my hand and no tools, it'd be prety much everything Festool produces. Mainly because it's a 'system' which, together, will get you a long way and reduce headaches. So to clarify: Domino, Kapex, all the routers, sanders, the saw with a 1400 rail and a 2600 rail (or combination of rails to get you to that length for rip\xcut boards), MFT (probably 2 of) and a couple of the vacs. I suspect that lot will be half or more of your budget. But certainly worth it.

5k isn't really a lot of money so you need to tell us exactly the type of woodworking you want to do and what you want to make. Also the size of your workshop is important. No point putting a Felder TS in an 8x4 shed

 

[GreenBoy]

StevieB - you are correct - this is accademic as i certainly dont have £5k burning a hole in my pocket. My interest was peaked after talking to a mate who used to deal in insurace, and it made me think i currently have what i would call a motly selection of tools picked up here and there and a few rusty trusty hand me downs, which when valued would get 2/3 of FA on ebay - however if i had to replace them then they would cost a surpringly large amount.... and i am a saturday DIY woodworker.

This brings me onto wizer... I am a back yard bodger, ie i currently have two 6*8 sheds both straining at the gunnels with stuff (apart from my tools and all those realy handy off cuts that will only be usefull 2 weeks after you bin them - there are bikes, lawn mowers and deck chairs and an awful lot of part used cans of paint!) therefore i have to run out side the minute it looks fine and set up on the flattest peice of ground i can find just by the back door. I spend considerable time setting up and putting away between which i create small peices of wood lovingly crafted from big bits of wood :? And then ask the wife to decide if she can tell what it is yet? :lol:

I would love a place to practice without worrying about oncoming rain, or the dog trying to run off with my timber or mortice guage....

So - workshop size - well i am thinking something along the lines of 16*12ft (I think thats approx 5*3.6m ish for you youngsters)

Does this help?

 

[wizer]

That's how I started and it's horrible isn't it. Espescially with our lovely weather.

I stand by my Festool comments. Great for the non-workshopper.

 

[Chems]

I do think 5k is enough. I think if you were buying properly you could easily spend that with out having all the kit required.

I'd get a Jet PT 260 @£1050 inch delivery
Deft T30 @ £800 (if I could now lyndhurst have gone but remember it was roughly @£800)
Festool Kapex @ £960
Axminster AW19FM Morticer @ £331
Axminster WD16F Drill Press @ £335
Axminster ADE2200 Extractor Dust Extractor @ £290
Assorted Hose Fittings @ £150
Incra Gauge for TS @ £100 (Quite a few options but around 100 I'd spend)
Jet JBOS-5 Oscillating Spindle Sander @ £328.50
Axminster DS12DLMB 300mm Braked Disc Sander @ £266.50
Triton Large Router £220
Triton Small Router £180
Router table either home made or bought @ £150
Makita BO5031 Random Orbit Palm Sander @ £79.95
Festool TS55 + Guide Rails @ £432.40
Camvac CGV386-5 Twin Motor 4" inlet 90ltr @ £409
Makita LXT231 Combi & Jigsaw + BTD140Z Impact Driver Li-Ion 18V @ £439.94
I would then spend a couple more hundred on hand tools and marking out tools.

Total: £6369


Thats my list, I think its pretty fair too, I've bought the best in some places, the PT, TS and Mitre Saw but in most I've bought just Axminster things. I own nearly all these types of machines but not the makes or models so this is what I think you need to do good woodworking, and over time I'd like to upgrade my existing machinery to ones like I've listed. But this is why I still think if your starting out you just have to buy what you can afford an buy better latter on which is what I've been doing. I haven't even included a BandSaw as I don't think I need one.

 

[FatFreddysCat]

Chems, from the standpoint of a tradesman I find some of your chioces decidedly odd, e.g.:

Festool Kapex @ £960

Incra Gauge for TS @ £100 (Quite a few options but around 100 I'd spend)

Makita BO5031 Random Orbit Palm Sander @ £79.95

Makita LXT231 Combi & Jigsaw + BTD140Z Impact Driver Li-Ion 18V @ £439.94

The Kapex is a hugely expensive machine for marginally better performance over a Makita, deWalt or Hitachi saw (all at half that price). I note that the price you quoted doesn't include any allowance for extra blades, same for the TS55.....

The Incra fence is also a bit questionable, IMHO. If you are buying a new table saw surely the fence on that should be adequate. But then I don't find a need to work to engineering tolerances

Having spent all that you then skimp on a decent sander. I'd recommend going for a 150mm ROS with a dual action, e.g. deWalt/Mafell/Metabo as that obviates having to buy a belt sander for joinery work, at least to start with.

And if you are buying a jigsaw for the workshop a Festool or Bosch GST135BCE are both way better than the cordless offerings from deWalt or Makita, not to mention cheaper. At £434 you're obviously someone with (notional) money to burn :wink:

I'm interested in the selection as I'm currently setting-up a "home" workshop for myself, albeit with a much smaller budget, and my purchases so far include a table saw, a crosscut saw, a planer/thicknesser and a spindle moulder. The mortiser, pedestal drill, compressor and dust extraction have yet to be found (or for that matter funded)

 

[Grinding One]

You just got burned out and you have money? Well go to your local boot sale and pick it all up there,then with the remaining money throw a bash....People will love it>

 

[Chems]

Chems, from the standpoint of a tradesman I find some of your chioces decidedly odd, e.g.:

Festool Kapex @ £960

Incra Gauge for TS @ £100 (Quite a few options but around 100 I'd spend)

Makita BO5031 Random Orbit Palm Sander @ £79.95

Makita LXT231 Combi & Jigsaw + BTD140Z Impact Driver Li-Ion 18V @ £439.94

The Kapex is a hugely expensive machine for marginally better performance over a Makita, deWalt or Hitachi saw (all at half that price). I note that the price you quoted doesn't include any allowance for extra blades, same for the TS55.....

Well TBH honest this isn't my actual shopping list I just made it up. When it actually came to spending the money I'd have a really good think about it. I think I do have my heart set on a TS55 thou, and realistically I couldn't spend nearly 1k on a mitre saw. The only one on my list that is defiantly chosen for a soon buy is the Jet 260.

Put forward you own suggestions for the choices of mine you think are off and we can update the price.

 

[big soft moose]

Being principally a turner - I'd take the opportunity to buy a VB36 - plus a set of turning chisels , and if there was money left over a decent sized bandsaw like the Electra beckum or Shappach offerings

 

[matthewwh]

If t'were me, the first thing I'd point the cash towards is a big solid heavy workbench, I bought mine direct from Germany. The Germans have the eastern European forestry industry by the short and curlies and make sure that it doesn't leave Germany until it's a finished product, so this is by far the best place to shop for things made from solid wood. I might even consider stretching to a Maguire as the bench is absolutely the most fundamental thing to get right in a workshop.

Next, I'd go for a bandsaw, thicknesser, drill press and tablesaw in that order. No need to go mad here, good quality secondhand stuff is widely available - look for the words cast iron in the description - in my opinion 70% of the performance of these machines is attributable to how well they are set up and the quality of tooling, (blades, bits etc) that you put on them.

A good set of chisels, good quality No6 and No4-1/2 bench planes, a 3110 shoulder plane, a block plane, and scary sharpening stuff to keep them all in good order. Three or four Japanese saws to cover a range of applications (substitute English here if you prefer them).

Clamps wise, a workable set of Besseys (yes, they are worth every penny) can be had for £300 - £400 and that's about it, we're ready to cut wood.

If you take out the Maguire bench for now, I reckon I'm still under three grand. There will always be a need for shop sundries, finishing supplies, and extra blades, bits and cutters for specific applications but I reckon this covers the basics.

Nice to have's would include a decent router with good quality bits (don't for heavens sake spare the pennies there) and the cheapest dust extractor you can find with a metal impeller hooked up to a really good set of filter bags.

Alternative plan: sod the tools, go and spend six months with David Savage and have an experience that you will carry with you for the rest of your life.

 

[wizer]

Alternative plan: sod the tools, go and spend six months with David Savage and have an experience that you will carry with you for the rest of your life.

I like that idea. Makes sense. I'd probably do that with the money.

 

[Dave S]

Alternative plan: sod the tools, go and spend six months with David Savage and have an experience that you will carry with you for the rest of your life.

I like that idea. Makes sense. I'd probably do that with the money.

Tom, Tom, Tom - you've changed your mind already and you're still on the first page of the thread! :lol:

Dave :wink:

 

[wizer]

Maybe I'd buy a CNC....

 

[Richard Findley]

Hi Greenboy,

Take a look at my workshop tour (link below) My workshop is 30ft by 12ft so a bit longer than you describe but in it you will find quite a lot of the Axminster brochure!! Bandsaw, P/T, Lathe, Extractor. The T/S is an old one which I got for a song but would perhaps cost £500(?) to buy from a supplier. Then there are the smaller bits of kit and the hand tools, the compressor and air tools, finishes, timber, etc etc.

£5000 would be tight but if you bought the essentials with it you could probably be up and running, then buy other bits as and when.

Cheers,

Richard

 

[Dave S]

Lots of talk about the big fancy stuff, but what about the smaller items can add up to quite a lot? I'm thinking measuring and marking, clamping, sharpening kit.

I reckon there are a few people here who would have to spend 1k or so to replace their current kit!

Dave

 

[big soft moose]

Alternative plan: sod the tools, go and spend six months with David Savage and have an experience that you will carry with you for the rest of your life.

david who ??

if we are into alternative plans you could also say sod the woodworking and spend 6 months living it large and picking up hot chicks (not sure swimbo would agree to that plan tho - I think she'd prefer i bought a VB36 )

 

[matthewwh]

David Savage (Or God whichever you prefer.)

 

[big soft moose]

David Savage (Or God whichever you prefer.)

sorry i'm an aetheist - and i'd get power tool withdrawal if i did that

 

[woodbloke]

If t'were me, the first thing I'd point the cash towards is a big solid heavy workbench, I bought mine direct from Germany. The Germans have the eastern European forestry industry by the short and curlies and make sure that it doesn't leave Germany until it's a finished product, so this is by far the best place to shop for things made from solid wood. I might even consider stretching to a Maguire as the bench is absolutely the most fundamental thing to get right in a workshop.

Next, I'd go for a bandsaw, thicknesser, drill press and tablesaw in that order. No need to go mad here, good quality secondhand stuff is widely available - look for the words cast iron in the description - in my opinion 70% of the performance of these machines is attributable to how well they are set up and the quality of tooling, (blades, bits etc) that you put on them.

A good set of chisels, good quality No6 and No4-1/2 bench planes, a 3110 shoulder plane, a block plane, and scary sharpening stuff to keep them all in good order. Three or four Japanese saws to cover a range of applications (substitute English here if you prefer them).

Clamps wise, a workable set of Besseys (yes, they are worth every penny) can be had for £300 - £400 and that's about it, we're ready to cut wood.

If you take out the Maguire bench for now, I reckon I'm still under three grand. There will always be a need for shop sundries, finishing supplies, and extra blades, bits and cutters for specific applications but I reckon this covers the basics.

Nice to have's would include a decent router with good quality bits (don't for heavens sake spare the pennies there) and the cheapest dust extractor you can find with a metal impeller hooked up to a really good set of filter bags.

Alternative plan: sod the tools, go and spend six months with David Savage and have an experience that you will carry with you for the rest of your life.

I agree with Matthew here...the bench is the single most important part of your kit and is often overlooked. I'd hesitate to recommend Jap saws (English pattern saws IMO are as good and better for hardwood) and I would I steer clear of Bessy's. Again, IMO, traditional Record sash cramps are the ones to go for, plus they're a hell of a lot kinder on the back pocket - Rob