5k Challange

[FatFreddysCat]

Put forward you own suggestions for the choices of mine you think are off and we can update the price.

There's the rub! I suppose the choice of tools is governed by whether or not one has the required hand tool skills to do certain things not to mention the type of work one undertakes.

I agree that a planer/thicknesser, crosscut saw (or mitre saw) and a rip saw (saw bench) of some description are necessaries so far as I'm concerned because they take away a lot of the drudge work prepping solid stock. I can't recommend anything on the planer/thicknesser front, but in the past I did quite well with a Kity 636 (?) which wasn't brilliant but was competent. The modern Sheppach would is of similar ilk. On the saw front I'd consider something like a secondhand deWalt radial arm saw (DW1251?) for crosscutting partly because they can also be fitted with a trenching cutter for doing housing joints (yes, the dreaded dados again!). For ripping a more portable saw bench such as the Makita MLT100 rip saw seems to be an excellent buy. Both could be mounted on home-made mobile benches.

I agree with you that for sheet materials a portable plunge saw and guide rails are extremely useful, although on a budget I'd look for a deal on the Makita SP6000 as it is much cheaper than the Festool.

Thereafter I think a decent home-made bench is a must - circa £150 to £200 for materials and a vice. After that, though the choice is very much down to what type of work will be undertaken. On that front I start with an advantage - I have a reasonable compliment of joiners hand tools together with the usual cordless drills which have taken a few years to acquire and which themselves would run to £2k to £3k to replace should it be necessary, but wityhout that kit I wouldn't even look at buying static machinery

 

[GreenBoy]

Wow - thanks for all the responces.

I know it does depend on the type of work you want to do which way you lean on hand or power tools, but i am leaning towards power tools as experience has shown a lack of ability in telling if something is straight or level by eye, and i can realy make a good bit of wood look ugly with a simple hand plane...

I think i would also like to have a go at turning - was alowed one whole lesson on this when i was at school many many years ago and emember enjoying it....

So it seems to me the big ticket items are (for a general all round set up)

• A bench - must admit i had forgotten this and although i would buy one i thought the ultimate aim was to make your own!
  Table Saw - i am also guessing suitable out feed stands or table.
  Planner Thicknesser - Never used one of these... any tutorials out there?
  Mitre Saw
  Router (plus table?)
  Clamps
  A selection of hand tools - necessary although i am really not very hand with a manual plane... but then if i had a decent bench and not a workmate in the garden, maybe i would inprove..
  Clamps
  measuring and marking tools
  Clamps

Now - just got to get over the normal argument of Festool or DeWalt, Record or Bessey ... etc .etc..

 

[big soft moose]

and a bandsaw

if you are pressed for space the bandsaw can also be used instead of the tablesaw

I'd also add a lathe , but then I am a bad bad man and forever trying to turn innocent flatworlders to the roundside

also although some people will disagree rather than getting a planer thicknesser i'd go with seperates and get something like the DW 733 thicknesser and either an axminster planer or an old multico or similar.

 

[Dave S]

Wow - thanks for all the responces.

I'm a bit confused - you posed the original question as a hypothetical one, how would you re-kit your workshop on 5k if you lost everything. Yet here it sounds like you talking about starting from scratch as an inexperienced woodworker with a 5k budget?

If this is so, then I think you should be cautious about the opinions given - certainly my advice to someone replacing their existing kit on 5k would be different to someone starting from scratch on 5k.

I think a newbie starting from scratch on 5k runs a danger of 'all the gear, no idea', if you see what I mean. In this case I would suggest scrubbing some of the machinery (a mitre saw and a table saw??) and going on a course.

Indeed, for 5k I could replace my entire workshop, like for like and spend several weeks with David Charlesworth, for example. Bear in mind that many people here have a large selection of expensive tools because they want them, not because they need them. (although that might not be the story they tell to their better halves!! :lol: )

cheers
Dave

 

[Dave S]

Planner Thicknesser - Never used one of these... any tutorials out there?

I bought mine secondhand. When I asked the guy why he was selling it he said, 'cos last time I used it I did this...' and held up his right hand, minus 4 fingers!!! At least he cleaned up the machine!!
Point being, and this goes for other machinery too, make sure you know what you are doing before you do it!

cheers
Dave

 

[yetloh]

With that sort of money you could negotiate discounts I reckon.

Also, for non-trade use, forget the tablesaw. Good band saw and P/T is all you need.

Jim

 

[big soft moose]

Planner Thicknesser - Never used one of these... any tutorials out there?

I bought mine secondhand. When I asked the guy why he was selling it he said, 'cos last time I used it I did this...' and held up his right hand, minus 4 fingers!!! At least he cleaned up the machine!!
Point being, and this goes for other machinery too, make sure you know what you are doing before you do it!

cheers
Dave

very true - but htf did he do that - The only thing i can think of is using the planer without the guards on - key lesson here - which is good for all machines is to keep your fingers away from the sharp bits and dont take the safety guarding off even if it seems to be in the way.

 

[Dave S]

Planner Thicknesser - Never used one of these... any tutorials out there?

I bought mine secondhand. When I asked the guy why he was selling it he said, 'cos last time I used it I did this...' and held up his right hand, minus 4 fingers!!! At least he cleaned up the machine!!
Point being, and this goes for other machinery too, make sure you know what you are doing before you do it!

cheers
Dave

very true - but htf did he do that - The only thing i can think of is using the planer without the guards on - key lesson here - which is good for all machines is to keep your fingers away from the sharp bits and dont take the safety guarding off even if it seems to be in the way.

Well yes, but I'm sure you have been here long enough to know there are many quite experienced members of this forum who do neither. :?

cheers
Dave

 

[big soft moose]

Planner Thicknesser - Never used one of these... any tutorials out there?

I bought mine secondhand. When I asked the guy why he was selling it he said, 'cos last time I used it I did this...' and held up his right hand, minus 4 fingers!!! At least he cleaned up the machine!!
Point being, and this goes for other machinery too, make sure you know what you are doing before you do it!

cheers
Dave

very true - but htf did he do that - The only thing i can think of is using the planer without the guards on - key lesson here - which is good for all machines is to keep your fingers away from the sharp bits and dont take the safety guarding off even if it seems to be in the way.

Well yes, but I'm sure you have been here long enough to know there are many quite experienced members of this forum who do neither. :?

cheers
Dave

lol yep i can think of one or two - mind you if you look at the murrican wood whisperer our members look postively safety conscious by comparison - they have a forum for injury reports and its staggering who many of the reports start "after removing the safety guarding..." or " before going to the workshop i'd had a few adult beverages..." or sometimes both

accidents can happen to anyone ( I once snapped a gouge and jammed the broken end into my palm) but they happen a lot more if you are stupid, careless or drunk

 

[wizer]

Must admit I wondered about loosing 4 fingers on a P/T, especially on a newish machine. Not even I'm stupid enough to run a jointer without the guard (tho I guess there are times when that might be necessary). Actually, what I find scarier than the jointer is the thicknesser, as I can see hands getting fed into it when trying to push something too small through.

 

[GreenBoy]

Dave S - very observant.

Am I a newbie -you bet.

Do I have any of this gear already - Yes (Varying hand tools in the most of questionable quality, and not a lot of skill to use them on my behalf, a cheap mitre saw and a router)

Do I have a really nice place to use it - No - outside when the weather is fine on a B&D workbench...very wobbly if I don’t position it just right.

Was this an academic discussion - yes and no.

I would like all noobies like a beautiful 'shed' to play in with all the gear, and as I think I stated earlier I don’t have £5k burning a hole in my pocket - so getting the consensus of the tools regular users would have from choice gives a good indication of what to aim for.

I am in the middle of plans to build my ‘play’ shed. Fingers crossed that it doesn’t totally break the bank. And then would look to kit it out over time with useful tools as opposed to just buying everything that looks good. Also not being able to buy it all in one go is good as you get to learn how to use one tool at a time.

I appreciate your comment on the different tools you would suggest to an experienced user, to that of a newbie. I also appreciate the comment you make on spending the cash on a course – actually for me this would be a great idea and this is going to be added to the top of my list, however (and I honestly mean no offence) but I am hoping the courses that I may be able to attend – evening classes, as I have to hold down a full time job as a mindless cubicle rate – don’t work out as expensive as the highly regarded courses you run (I am guessing these are more for people who want to turn pro and not those of us who just want to learn to have fun doing something creative, other than watching TV!)

Now back to the academic – it’s interesting the comment you make about having both a table and a mitre saw. True this is from a point of ignorance, so to me a table saw is for ripping down larger pieces of sheet type materials than cutting lengths of timber accurately. With a decent sturdy bench and knowledge on using a saw properly then do you really need either? Not having developed the skill with the handsaw to get accurate straight cuts consistently the mitre saw is a must for me, however with practice and a stable bench maybe I will be able to do away with it...

Also from an academic point its interesting for example Chems knows exactly what he would by make and model, and Wizer would just go to festool and allow them to ream out his pockets. A few have made comments on hand tools but not many real suggestions on what exactly they would buy, planes, chisels etc... do most here think they are something you should spend little on as there is no difference between makes for example?

Anyway – enough for now as my wife is calling dinner is ready, and I need to rest my eyes as I have been staring at a computer screen all day.

I will follow up with some more comments later, as some of the other contributors have made some valid comments also.

Thanks for all your comments
GreenBoy

 

[FatFreddysCat]

Now back to the academic – it’s interesting the comment you make about having both a table and a mitre saw. True this is from a point of ignorance, so to me a table saw is for ripping down larger pieces of sheet type materials than cutting lengths of timber accurately. With a decent sturdy bench and knowledge on using a saw properly then do you really need either?

That's right - a table saw is primarily a ripping tool (despite what the guys with sliding tables, sleds, etc on theirs would have you believe - try crosscutting a 16ft length of 3 x 2in PAR on one) whilst a chop saw/radial arm saw is for sizing to length. Both tasks can be done manually, and indeed you really should learn how to do these tasks manually because there will always be occassions you can't take the job to the machine or even a power tool to the job, such as installing a built-in the attic, or on a boat, or wherever. The primary thing you want static machinery to do is to take the drudge work out of woodworking. That drudge work is really ripping down timber, planing, edge jointing and thicknessing same. Add to that the ability of any crosscut saw to cut accurate mitres, an essential for tasks as lowly as installing skirtings and architraves in the house and it's easy to see why these are popular choices.

As far as basic hand and power tools go you'll not go wrong if you take a look at the sort of kit a 2nd fix joiner carries with him as his kit can handle a large part of everyday making up and installation - without much need for power tools. But then as a joiner, I would say that, wouldn't I? If you want to go into a discussion about that then it's probably a whole different thread

 

[Nick Gibbs]

But - the idea is to kit out a workshop for £5k all in..... can it be done and have quality kit.

And don't forget the bench! :lol:

Easy. This depends if you are starting as a beginner, or setting up a workshop as an experienced woodworker. I'm assuming the former scenario.

Rule No.1 is don't spend it all at once. Buy a bench for a few hundred (you'll use it later for other things) and a bandsaw for a few hundred, then see what you need. You'll soon build up kit and find out what you need. I've seen too many people who end up buying things they don't need.

Nick

 

[Dave S]

But - the idea is to kit out a workshop for £5k all in..... can it be done and have quality kit.

And don't forget the bench! :lol:

Easy. This depends if you are starting as a beginner, or setting up a workshop as an experienced woodworker. I'm assuming the former scenario.

Rule No.1 is don't spend it all at once. Buy a bench for a few hundred (you'll use it later for other things) and a bandsaw for a few hundred, then see what you need. You'll soon build up kit and find out what you need. I've seen too many people who end up buying things they don't need.

Nick

Which, in aout a quarter of the words, is more or less what I was trying to say!!

Dave

 

[Dave S]

Must admit I wondered about loosing 4 fingers on a P/T, especially on a newish machine. Not even I'm stupid enough to run a jointer without the guard (tho I guess there are times when that might be necessary). Actually, what I find scarier than the jointer is the thicknesser, as I can see hands getting fed into it when trying to push something too small through.

Well, it was a Kity 636, so not exacty newish. But still. I presume what he did was have his hand on the tail end of the wood and, instead of taking it off and placing it on the outfeed side of the cutter, just run it straight through. I guess as the wood left the cutter, his hand slipped down and he chewed through the base of his fingers.

But I didn't ask for details!!

Dave

 

[Dave S]

Dave S - very observant.


I appreciate your comment on the different tools you would suggest to an experienced user, to that of a newbie. I also appreciate the comment you make on spending the cash on a course – actually for me this would be a great idea and this is going to be added to the top of my list, however (and I honestly mean no offence) but I am hoping the courses that I may be able to attend – evening classes, as I have to hold down a full time job as a mindless cubicle rate – don’t work out as expensive as the highly regarded courses you run (I am guessing these are more for people who want to turn pro and not those of us who just want to learn to have fun doing something creative, other than watching TV!)

Thanks for all your comments
GreenBoy

No offence taken - I don't run courses!! In fact, I'd like the time and funds to do one! Not sure if you slightly misread my post - perhaps you mistook me for David Savage (only time in my life that is likely to happen!! :lol: )

cheers
Dave