5 1/2 Jack and Low Angle Jack Planes

[Nigel Burden]

As others have said, £20 isn't a lot to pay, and I would expect to have to fettle it at that price.

If you feel that the description does not reflect the condition that you received the plane in then ask for a full refund, but quite often a seller states that the buyer examine the photos as they form the description.

Personally I would fix it as I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of returning it. As long as there are no pieces missing from the tote it should glue ok, and the angle the blade's ground at isn't a problem unless it's way out, or has no meat left on it. Cracks in the casting are a no-no. Having said that, I have a no4 Stanley that was a £2 car boot buy which revealed cracks on either side of the mouth once cleaned up. It was obviously used as a scrub plane as it had a heavily cambered blade. This plane performs ok as a scrub plane, and the cracks do not mark the wood.

This is a personal thing, and it will depend on whether you feel that you can fix it. Paul Sellars and Mitch Peacock have videos on youtube on restoring a Stanley no4 if you decide to go down that route.

Nigel

 

[MikeG.]

.........Hone a standard 30° micro-bevel on the cutting edge and you'll be fine........

Is this where I say that I don't do micro-bevels on plane irons, then run for the hills?

 

[AndyT]

.........Hone a standard 30° micro-bevel on the cutting edge and you'll be fine........

Is this where I say that I don't do micro-bevels on plane irons, then run for the hills?

... or you could just note that the wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!
I'm sure that if the OP wants to explore all the many and varied options for sharpening this or any other plane, he'll ask.

 

[Vann]

.........Hone a standard 30° micro-bevel on the cutting edge and you'll be fine........

Is this where I say that I don't do micro-bevels on plane irons, then run for the hills?

With me chasing you with a sharp cutting iron on a stick (with a honed micro-bevel, of course) (hammer) .

Each to our own choice of masochism :wink: .

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Vann]

.........Hone a standard 30° micro-bevel on the cutting edge and you'll be fine........

... or you could just note that the wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from!..

I've tried various bevels on various cutting tools - but in the end decided, for a bevel-down plane iron it's just easier to grind somewhere near 25° and then hone a 30° micro-bevel. I still play around with angles on bevel-up plane irons and chisels (haven't done enough woodwork in recent years to tire of that - yet).

...I'm sure that if the OP wants to explore all the many and varied options for sharpening this or any other plane, he'll ask.

...and start another sharpening thread :shock: :shock: .

Cheers, Vann :wink: .

 

[richarddownunder]

Well, personally, if the is nothing wrong with the sole and sides, and as its's not a collector's piece, just a user, I'd fix it - scrape off the varnish glue and re-finish it, get rid of the rust and make shavings. You'll probably not be able to see the join if you are careful. Otherwise make https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpuFMIHzsuU (nice little project) or buy a new handle. The rest looks OK to me.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Nikolaj33]

...I guess my main concern is that it was put together from different planes' parts. One is obvious, the cap iron is quite obviously a lot more recent than the sole which is a 1931/32 model. ..

It may be a bitsa but, from the pictures, I don't think it is. What makes you think the sole is 1931-32? It looks like a post WW2 plane to me. Does it say "Made in England"? If so, it wasn't made in 1931-32.

...I measured the angle of the iron bevel and it is ground at 20 degrees. I am a newby so I would like to know, if this was ever done on 5 1/2 planes?...

...I suppose my main question is about this 20 degree iron...

The 20° iron is nothing to worry about. As ED65 says, you'll regrind the iron many times if you get into regular woodworking. Hone a standard 30° micro-bevel on the cutting edge and you'll be fine.

...Should I bite the bullet and try to make this one work or should I open a dispute?...

The broken handle would annoy me, but... Might it have happened in transit? Life's too short - glue it up, hone the cutting iron, and go make some shavings.

My tuppence worth.

Cheers, Vann.

Well, yes it does say Made in England. Am I missing something?? The reason why I thought it was 1931/32 model is because I went on this website: https://woodandshop.com/identify-stanle ... ype-study/

It asks you a series of questions about the characteristics of the plane and then it dates it for you through elimination. So the questions and answers in this case is as follows:

How Many Patent Dates do you see behind the handplane frog? Answer- 0.

Do you see a raised ring surrounding the knob receiver screw hole? Answer- Yes.

Is the plane bed painted dark blue? Answer- No.

Do you see a raised rib on toe (front) and heal (rear)? Answer- No.

Results: Type 15 Stanley Bailey Hand Plane (1931-1932)

Am I missing something???

 

[Vann]

Yes. What you're missing is that site is only for North American Stanleys. Stanley moved into UK when they bought JA Chapman in December, 1936. We don't know exactly when they started casting planes in UK but if it was January 1937, and if they left the new castings to season for 12 months, then the first UK Stanleys will date to 1938. What we do know is that the first UK Stanleys were based on the then current USA type 16.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Vann]

...Well, yes it does say Made in England. Am I missing something?? The reason why I thought it was 1931/32 model is because I went on this website: https://woodandshop.com/identify-stanle ... ype-study/

It asks you a series of questions about the characteristics of the plane and then it dates it for you through elimination. So the questions and answers in this case is as follows:

How Many Patent Dates do you see behind the handplane frog? Answer- 0.

Do you see a raised ring surrounding the knob receiver screw hole? Answer- Yes.

Is the plane bed painted dark blue? Answer- No.

Do you see a raised rib on toe (front) and heal (rear)? Answer- No.

Results: Type 15 Stanley Bailey Hand Plane (1931-1932)...

There are two other items that confirm yours is NOT a type 15. The frog has an "ogee" shaped back - this was introduced with the type 16. The lever-cap has a "kidney" shaped hole - this too was introduced with the type 16. As I said in the previous post, the first UK Stanleys were based on the type 16 Nth American Stanleys.

I wonder if the patterns were actually produced in the USA and shipped to England (complete with "Made in England" lettering), as they look very similar - but that's just speculation on my part.

This is the site I use for dating Nth American Stanleys http://rexmill.com/planes101/typing/typing.htm
(also useful for 1st UK Stanleys [type 16] and 1st Records [type 14/15]).

Unfortunately no-one has produced a detailed study of UK (nor Australian) Stanleys.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[MikeG.]

........Unfortunately no-one has produced a detailed study of UK (nor Australian) Stanleys...

Do we not have enough expertise here on this forum for someone to do this?

 

[AndyT]

........Unfortunately no-one has produced a detailed study of UK (nor Australian) Stanleys...

Do we not have enough expertise here on this forum for someone to do this?

I very much doubt it.
The USA has a level of obsession matched with cash which I have never seen over here. I'm talking about collectors with hundreds of examples of the same model, years of study, and detailed reference books.

 

[Bod]

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02 ... udy-draft/

The work has started.

Bod

 

[AndyT]

https://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/20/stanley-english-type-study-draft/

The work has started.

Bod

I think that rather supports my point - one or two lone voices in nearly three years, for something very much still an early draft.

 

[Nikolaj33]

...Well, yes it does say Made in England. Am I missing something?? The reason why I thought it was 1931/32 model is because I went on this website: https://woodandshop.com/identify-stanle ... ype-study/

It asks you a series of questions about the characteristics of the plane and then it dates it for you through elimination. So the questions and answers in this case is as follows:

How Many Patent Dates do you see behind the handplane frog? Answer- 0.

Do you see a raised ring surrounding the knob receiver screw hole? Answer- Yes.

Is the plane bed painted dark blue? Answer- No.

Do you see a raised rib on toe (front) and heal (rear)? Answer- No.

Results: Type 15 Stanley Bailey Hand Plane (1931-1932)...

There are two other items that confirm yours is NOT a type 15. The frog has an "ogee" shaped back - this was introduced with the type 16. The lever-cap has a "kidney" shaped hole - this too was introduced with the type 16. As I said in the previous post, the first UK Stanleys were based on the type 16 Nth American Stanleys.

I wonder if the patterns were actually produced in the USA and shipped to England (complete with "Made in England" lettering), as they look very similar - but that's just speculation on my part.

This is the site I use for dating Nth American Stanleys http://rexmill.com/planes101/typing/typing.htm
(also useful for 1st UK Stanleys [type 16] and 1st Records [type 14/15]).

Unfortunately no-one has produced a detailed study of UK (nor Australian) Stanleys.

Cheers, Vann.

Thanks Vann,

So you think mine is am early English Stanley?

 

[Andy Kev.]

........Unfortunately no-one has produced a detailed study of UK (nor Australian) Stanleys...

Do we not have enough expertise here on this forum for someone to do this?

I very much doubt it.
The USA has a level of obsession matched with cash which I have never seen over here. I'm talking about collectors with hundreds of examples of the same model, years of study, and detailed reference books.

"... collectors with hundreds of examples of the same model ..."

Uh? I could understand two of the same model of a plane you used a lot e.g. one with a cambered and one with a straight iron but hundreds of the same? I'm sure that nearly every human being has an instinct to collect something but I don't get that. (And I thought I was getting bad as I slowly move towards acquiring a nearly complete set of bench planes but at least I make sure I use them all and I refuse to have anything smaller than a 4 1/2.)

 

[ED65]

Uh? I could understand two of the same model of a plane you used a lot e.g. one with a cambered and one with a straight iron but hundreds of the same?

Really excessively large collections are known, the estate auction records show us that if the photos of some collector's stashes didn't! Some of this is the he who dies with the most toys wins mindset, in other cases it was clearly hoarding in the worst way. But you don't have to own the planes all at once. If you make detailed notes and/or take all the relevant photos during the period that 50 or 100 or 300 planes of a given model pass through your hands it could supply the relevant comparison info. As large as the pool of secondhand planes is in the UK it's so much larger in the US which makes both of the above much more practical.

Assuming someone on this side of the pond was in a position to do either, a definitive dating timeline may still not be possible for English-made Stanley planes for reasons that have been mentioned by others previously. The change from wood handles to resin is one major feature change (and the subsequent introduction of plastic), and then there's the first appearance of the rounded top corners on the iron. But other than those there may not have been enough variation to allow detailed dating.

 

[Vann]

... As large as the pool of secondhand planes is in the UK it's so much larger in the US which makes both of the above much more practical...

It interesting (to me anyway) that the best study of Record planes was done by an Irishman living in Australia - while the best study of WS Tools planes (of Birmingham) was done by a Canadian.

There are a lot of identifiable changes in English Stanleys. The difficulty is establishing when they occurred (and sometimes, in what order).

Cheers Vann.

 

[Ttrees]

Nikolaj33 has had it spot on from his first post,
I'm surprised that some folk think otherwise.
I only have the same experience as everyone else though, who has eyes
All that takes is looking at that famous auction site with the biggest plane collection ever in the world.

 

[Vann]

...So you think mine is am early English Stanley?

Possibly. Probably.
It has some known features of an early one:
1. Bare top edge of side 'wings'. This was no longer machined but left painted, from ~ mid-1950s;
2. No rib on ends. Stanley added extra thickness to the leading and trailing ends of the planes with a low raised rib. It's believed this raised edge was introduced about the time plane production began in UK. For example, I've never seen a UK No.4 without it. On the other hand I read it took years before it was added to some of the larger planes.

WW2 affected UK Stanley plane production not long after it started. The castings became thicker (seen a few No.4.5 with extra thick castings) and brass was needed for shell casings so plastic/rubber (with threaded brass insert) was used for depth adjuster wheels. Your plane has neither, so I'd suggest it's either pre or post WW2 - and post is more likely. Mid-1940s to mid 1950s would be my best guestimate.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[SammyQ]

Does it really all matter? If the plane, of any sort, colour, lineage, or shape is tuned so that it works, ain't that the issue? The only way I can see to justify all this disguised hoarding talk as evenly remotely useful is if one particular brand/model/year was useless or untuneable. Anything after that is froth.
Sam, on his soapbox, heading for Hyde Park Corner....