3 phase

[Nev Hallam]

I have been given a 3 phase Wadkin table saw and a 3 phase band saw, i wish to use them in my garage except Its not so cheap and easy to have 3p installed in a residential area. I heard about having the motor change or buying a digital/electronic converter or a static or rotary one, only thing is this mean very little to me, so it looks like i'll have to pay for someone who knows what they are doing to install such devices or undertake certain procedures. As both machines were free I don't mind paying for the work. Does anyone have any advice or know of anyone who would be able to help out.
Nev
Leicester area

 

[DaveL]

Nev,

I don't know which Wadkin table saw you have, I have an old AGS 10 that was 3 phase, when I bought it. I then bought a 3hp single phase motor for it, it is a great saw and will out last me. You can see what I did here
If I had been given a table saw and a band saw then I would have bought an inverter, one big enough to power the biggest motor, I only use one at a time and would not mind plugging the selected one in to use it. It also opens up the door to other 3 phase kit which is cheaper than single phase and being made for industrial use more robustly built.

If you search on the forum you will find advice and sources posted for inverters.

 

[Nev Hallam]

Well I'm going to have a look at the saw tomorrow im virtually getting it for free, that and the band saw, I was informed by a friend that they wont run as good through an invertor and changing the motor is massive hassle due to the other parts that ill have to change. I really not mechanically or elctronically minded infact if its not made of wood I dont know what it is, I have to lable things to be able to identify what they are unless they made from a tree. lol Thanks for the info I will look into finding out more before giving up a free wadkin.

 

[Digit]

The only thing besides the motor that would normally need to be changed is the starter switch and they are not that expensive.

Roy.

 

[9fingers]

Well I'm going to have a look at the saw tomorrow im virtually getting it for free, that and the band saw, I was informed by a friend that they wont run as good through an invertor and changing the motor is massive hassle due to the other parts that ill have to change. I really not mechanically or elctronically minded infact if its not made of wood I dont know what it is, I have to lable things to be able to identify what they are unless they made from a tree. lol Thanks for the info I will look into finding out more before giving up a free wadkin.

Nev, what your friend says about inverters is more correct for a converter although rotary converters can be very good.
He is wrong about inverters; an inverter will run a 3 phase motor perfectly and what is more will give controllable acceleration and braking.

IMHO the value of nearly free cast iron from Wadkin is well worth the time and effort of solving the power issues.

Sorry I amm too far away from you otherwise I'd happily help you but I'm sure there will be members nearby who can.
Bob

 

[DavidE]

Hi,

As others have said electronic inverters are good - absolutely no problems there. Providing the motors are dual voltage/have the windings terminated out you should be able to run it at the lower 240V line voltage (connected in Delta). If you can find someone who is an industrial electrician in your are they should be able to advise you easily on whether it is feasible or not. There will be a way to do it. When you get the beasts if you can take a picture of the plates on the motor/ post the details I'm sure there will be quite a few people around who can help point you in the right direction.

Hope this helps, David

 

[Nev Hallam]

I just spoken to the nice people at Transwave, I spoke with a guy who can supply me with a 4 or 5 hp static converter from 4-£500, I wont have to alter the saw in any way, I read a few places about the start being delayed and the motor taking time to get up to speed, but for the hassle it seems pretty good, also I like the idea of just being able to plug and unplug the saw, and have the option of being able to add other 3p machines at a later date.
And on the other hand I can buy a digital inverter which will not require me having a duel voltage motor for around the same price £400-£500. I understand this has a speed control so it will start better but it seems ill have to add on off switches although this will give me 3hp. Hm the choices! I have a feeling the digital is better but for some reason the static seems less hassle.

 

[Nev Hallam]

I have just come across what appears to be a bargain although as I have no idea about these inverters I don't know if it is the right inverter i need, and sadly the seller seems to know as much as I do so I thought I'd put the Ebay item details on here and you guys might be able to help.

300312740388 Ebay Item number

 

[mark]

Hi Nev,
I've sent you a PM regarding a rotary converter I use.
Mark

 

[9fingers]

I have just come across what appears to be a bargain although as I have no idea about these inverters I don't know if it is the right inverter i need, and sadly the seller seems to know as much as I do so I thought I'd put the Ebay item details on here and you guys might be able to help.

300312740388 Ebay Item number

No this inverter require 3 phase INPUT.

Bob

 

[9fingers]

I just spoken to the nice people at Transwave, I spoke with a guy who can supply me with a 4 or 5 hp static converter from 4-£500, I wont have to alter the saw in any way, I read a few places about the start being delayed and the motor taking time to get up to speed, but for the hassle it seems pretty good, also I like the idea of just being able to plug and unplug the saw, and have the option of being able to add other 3p machines at a later date.
And on the other hand I can buy a digital inverter which will not require me having a duel voltage motor for around the same price £400-£500. I understand this has a speed control so it will start better but it seems ill have to add on off switches although this will give me 3hp. Hm the choices! I have a feeling the digital is better but for some reason the static seems less hassle.

If you are likely to have multiple 3phase machines in the future, then the converter is the best way to go. The transwaves normally have a few different settings on the front panel and you will soon get to know what settings run each machine best.
If as sometime in the future you get a machine that wont run properly on the static converter, it is relatively easy to make it into a rotary converter.
Inverters are best used dedicated to one machine.

hth

Bob

 

[DavidE]

I'd tend to agree with what Bob has said, however, static converters do have their limitations - I have no experience of using them so will not comment.

I think my advice would be to work out exactly what you need for each machine and see where you go from there. Once you know the motors, you'll be able to see the options and equipment ratings you need.

David

Edit- corrected the hideous grammar mistake.

 

[Nev Hallam]

I just heard that static converters wont do the job properly, the sales guy speaks very highly of his product and he's certain it'll run my saw to its full potential, in honesty thats all im really botherd about digital or static, which ever runs properly.
Here's a better question if you had a wadkin 10AG and was only interested in running it to its best and did not have the choice of actual 3 phase which would ya choose? The sellers of both seem to say there product is better suited.

 

[9fingers]

Of course each salesman will tell you his product is good. What else would you expect!

There is little doubt that a three phase motor will run best on proper 3 phase power. A converter is a bodge but a generally acceptable one. The third phase is never quite right and often the motor is noisy. Technically you won't get full rated power out as a result but it is not that often that most saws have to give their all.
There will be a big switch on surge for which you need a beefy supply and there will be no braking.

Running on an inverter will give a genuine balanced three phases and give a programmable delay to run up to speed and offer a controlled deceleration or braking bringing the machine to a stop within a second or so. It will be much more gentle with the supply as well.

First thing to do is to see if your motor is dual voltage either by looking at the rating plate or looking inside the terminal box where a dual voltage machine will have 6 connections in two rows of three.
Best to post a close up photo of both so we can see what you have.

Elsewhere you have said you are favouring a single phase motor conversion. You need to make up your mind which way you are going and then we can help.

hth

Bob

 

[DavidE]

Nev,

As Bob has said you will always hear the sales pitch… static converters do a job reasonably well … with some limitations. I didn’t want to comment as I have no experience of running machinery off one – I imagine Bob has (lots) and it sounds like you’ll get acceptable performance. In many ways running a converter is no more of a bodge than a single phase motor is, the extra bodge comes from the fact the three phase motor isn’t designed around the limitations of a pulsing (rather than rotating) field so you won’t get the full woof, and maybe some noise.

As requested yesterday and Bob has just mentioned get some pictures of the motors and I’m sure a number of people will be able to chip in with suggestions. People will have their own personal preferences and experiences too so you should get a broad view of your options.

David

 

[Digit]

Personally, where the option is feasible, I prefer the single phase option. Inverters, converters, they are something else to go wrong!

Roy.

 

[Nev Hallam]

In response to 9 fingers, the reason I posted elsewhere about wishing to have a new motor is just that I really have no idea whats best other than getting info from here, I slowly making a decision though. As I want it to run as well as possible i'll be patient wait until I have the saw in me garage and check out the motor plate.

Do you really only have 9 fingers? thats coincidental if you have, my good friend and also master cabinet maker Dunc also only has 9 fingers, he's one heck of a climber too! his favourite t shirt reads 'Missing Digits'

 

[9fingers]

Hi Nev,

No I now have 10 working fingers even if one is a little bent!

When I joined the forum I was laid up having has a 'fight' with my planer and the resultant surgery had joined two fingers together to share a blood supply. So it rather looked like I had 9 fingers. After a few weeks they were separated again but I did not change my nickname.

Apologies to anyone squeamish who is reading this and eating their breakfast :lol: :lol:

Bob

 

[Doug B]

Glad to hear it was a success Bob.

Not had tomato sauce on me sarnie just now though :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Nev Hallam]

So ironic, Dunc Has lost half the finger, the rest of his fingers are all bent up too, the exact same thing though, in a planer! Yet he still an awesome climber he also been know to turn a bowl or 2 and replicate the odd queen ann chair. But his real disability is that he's ginger!
Anyone wanna swap a imaculate Wadkin AG10 3p for a single phase sip or something as good? ha ha!
Im gonna have my work cut out trying to get this thing running i know it!
Thanks to you all though I learning alot!