2 stroke garden machinery frustration

[Housey210]

Sounds strange, I thought E10 was the new formula, and some older equipment might need to stick with E5.

Checked today and yep the E5 pump is the one I now avoid for car. Bike, I can use both E5 and E10 with no issues though the E5 does appear more mpg (96mpg)
E5 higher octane with this blurb from esso-

What’s in our Synergy Supreme+ 99 premium petrol?​

Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules engineered to reduce friction in your engine and help moving parts work more efficiently.**​

We currently supply an ethanol-free Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded in some parts of the UK. From September 2023 our Synergy Supreme+ 99 will transition to contain up to a maximum of 5% ethanol at all Esso pumps irrespective of which part of the country they are located. The labelling at our pumps will remain as E5 for Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded.​

Have you tried the E10 in the machine? might be worth a go.

 

[John Brown]

My son in law bought a used Stihl multi purpose engine head off ebay it would start then not run. Some sort of carburretor problem but Stihl spares were expensive. I bought a complete replacement carb off ebay from China for very little. Now runs and works perfectly.

Yes. I bought a cheap carb for my Stihl strimmer, works fine, although I had to butcher the throttle cable end somewhat.
The new carb I fitted to this piece of junk, however, goes straight on, no butchery required.

 

[John Brown]

Checked today and yep the E5 pump is the one I now avoid for car. Bike, I can use both E5 and E10 with no issues though the E5 does appear more mpg (96mpg)
E5 higher octane with this blurb from esso-

What’s in our Synergy Supreme+ 99 premium petrol?​

Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules engineered to reduce friction in your engine and help moving parts work more efficiently.**​

We currently supply an ethanol-free Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded in some parts of the UK. From September 2023 our Synergy Supreme+ 99 will transition to contain up to a maximum of 5% ethanol at all Esso pumps irrespective of which part of the country they are located. The labelling at our pumps will remain as E5 for Synergy Supreme+ 99 unleaded.​

Have you tried the E10 in the machine? might be worth a go.

No. As far as I understand things, E5 is the stuff we've all been using for years, and E10 is double the proportion of ethanol.
I am excited by the prospect of specially engineered molecules, though.

 

[squib]

The fuel to air mix needs adjusting with the mixture screw after a new gasket.
There's not enough fuel in the ratio at the moment, hence needing the choke.

 

[pe2dave]

Thanks. I don't have the original, BTW, it was missing.

Generally new carbs are sold as a kit, complete with gaskets.

 

[John Brown]

Generally new carbs are sold as a kit, complete with gaskets.

That's what I would have thought.

 

[XTiffy]

John Brown,
Can't lay my hand on user manual for my wheeled strimmer and off to hospital for an operation shortly-sorry. I checked my machine and it is a Fox Lawn Ranger Mk.2. I had a look at the carb/manifold and it seemed to be the metal carb sandwiched between two plastis pieces, I would imagine a gasket is not required(?). What is your make/model?

 

[John Brown]

John Brown,
Can't lay my hand on user manual for my wheeled strimmer and off to hospital for an operation shortly-sorry. I checked my machine and it is a Fox Lawn Ranger Mk.2. I had a look at the carb/manifold and it seemed to be the metal carb sandwiched between two plastis pieces, I would imagine a gasket is not required(?). What is your make/model?

It says "Hornet". That's about all I know!

 

[Housey210]

No. As far as I understand things, E5 is the stuff we've all been using for years, and E10 is double the proportion of ethanol.
I am excited by the prospect of specially engineered molecules, though.

From experience, melted belly pan, the E5 was the cause, also the word of garage when showed them at MOT. Only used that pump twice with tenner a go. The E5 is 99 octane the E10 97 however this on google about esso E5- "Esso are also unique in the UK in that their 99 octane fuel has zero ethanol in most of the country even though it is labelled E5 (there is no E0 label). Some Esso 99 has up to 5% ethanol like the other depending upon where you buy it" I only ever use esso or shell, too many issues experienced with supermarket fuel on my old, 2002, banger. I guess your machine is petrol mix and not seperate oil. Could the E5 you are using running hotter and impacting on mix? Personally I would try the E10 (97), one hornet manual states 97 octane the min. Picky of machine and carb would be interesting to see.

 

[John Brown]

From experience, melted belly pan, the E5 was the cause, also the word of garage when showed them at MOT. Only used that pump twice with tenner a go. The E5 is 99 octane the E10 97 however this on google about esso E5- "Esso are also unique in the UK in that their 99 octane fuel has zero ethanol in most of the country even though it is labelled E5 (there is no E0 label). Some Esso 99 has up to 5% ethanol like the other depending upon where you buy it" I only ever use esso or shell, too many issues experienced with supermarket fuel on my old, 2002, banger. I guess your machine is petrol mix and not seperate oil. Could the E5 you are using running hotter and impacting on mix? Personally I would try the E10 (97), one hornet manual states 97 octane the min. Picky of machine and carb would be interesting to see.

Thanks for your input, but to be honest, E10 wasn't a thing when this machine was built(OK, I know there have been ethanol rich fuels around for decades, but not mainstream forecourt stuff). But anyway, this machine is not just running slightly lumpy or anything... it's unusable. I seriously don't believe it's an octane based thing.
Also, one the reasons E10 is not recommended for mowers/strimmers etc. is because it's hygroscopic and can cause corrosion and degradation of plastic fuel lines and the like.

 

[John Brown]

So I just took the silence box off. I was expecting some sort of grill/gauze that might need cleaning, but it appears to be just a metal box with baffles. It did, however, contain about a dessertspoon full of black oil. I say black, as the Stihl two stroke oil I use is distinctly red in colour. Good news is that the piston and rings look good, at least the parts I can see through the exhaust port.
I can't see how any of this would affect the running so catastrophically, however, so I'll replace the carb with my thicker cardboard gasket, and check to see if the spark plug in the strimmer or leaf blower is similar, before throwing more money at it!

 

[Housey210]

Thanks for your input, but to be honest, E10 wasn't a thing when this machine was built(OK, I know there have been ethanol rich fuels around for decades, but not mainstream forecourt stuff). But anyway, this machine is not just running slightly lumpy or anything... it's unusable. I seriously don't believe it's an octane based thing.
Also, one the reasons E10 is not recommended for mowers/strimmers etc. is because it's hygroscopic and can cause corrosion and degradation of plastic fuel lines and the like.

It is odd, as you say because I have been running that car for years on unleaded which I believe was E15. Based on what you have said I am starting to think my issue is the brand and their mix as I have to change the plugs twice a year on E10, plugs every two years on the old unleaded!

 

[pe2dave]

Rather than guess, web search for handbook for the machine, find out what fuel / ratio is recommended?

 

[John Brown]

Rather than guess, web search for handbook for the machine, find out what fuel / ratio is recommended?

I have searched, so far found nothing useful.

 

[pe2dave]

I have searched, so far found nothing useful.

What is the machine please, is it really 'home made'?

 

[John Brown]

It says "Hornet". It appears to be a generic 52cc two stroke, which is why I was easily able to find a new carb and fuel pipe with filter on Amazon.
It's definitely not homemade, in fact it seems the machine is still available.

https://www.gardenmachinerystore.com/Wheeled-strimmer-ukgm01
It doesn't look exactly like this, but similar.

 

[pe2dave]

It says "Hornet". It appears to be a generic 52cc two stroke, which is why I was easily able to find a new carb and fuel pipe with filter on Amazon.
It's definitely not homemade, in fact it seems the machine is still available.

https://www.gardenmachinerystore.com/Wheeled-strimmer-ukgm01
It doesn't look exactly like this, but similar.

Bailey Hornet - Wikipedia I wonder if it is a 4 stroke engine? Would explain all the smoke?

 

[John Brown]

Bailey Hornet - Wikipedia I wonder if it is a 4 stroke engine? Would explain all the smoke?

Deffo not 4 stroke. Firstly, no oil filler, secondly, fuel cap has a picture of a petrol pump, with a plus sign and a picture of an oil droplet. Apart from that, I think I can recognize a two stroke.

 

[John Brown]

Just to be clear, pe2dave, it's the whole thing that's branded "Hornet", not the engine.

 

[Spectric]

The issue with E10 is the higher percentage of Ethanol which has an affinity to absorb moisture from the atmosphere just like brake fluid. In cars with fuel injection and tank vapour control systems this is / should be less of an issue as the system is not open to the atmosphere. With older cars and most horticultural machinery fitted with a carburretor the float chamber is vented to atmosphere and you can get issues.

As for that blurb

and includes molecules engineered to reduce friction in your engine and help moving parts work more efficiently​

I wonder if those molecules are hydrocarbons and do they realise that it is your engine oil that keeps everything from grinding to a halt and not the fuel, are they saying that with that fuel bore wash is not an issue anymore and if you have a leaky injector the excess fuel can replace the oil film and lubricate the cylinder, I bet not and it will just dilute the oil like it has done for decades.