2. Steve's Workshop- The Commissioning and Production

[BearTricks]

I thought I'd made it perfectly clear that I have never expected the £ to come rolling in!
This is about trying to do something good without having to subsidise every single one of my sales, which is what I did for the first few years of Workshop Essentials. And I'm not talking about labour cost, I mean hard cash spent up front vs receipts.

I'm happy to do the work, as long as it doesn't make me poorer!

Thank you all for the many, varied, considered and constructive contributions to this discussion, it really is much appreciated.

What I'm trying to get at is, whether it's your intention or not, that it is possible to make money and some people are clearly doing it. For most of them it's not the only string to their bow, but it gives them an important presence on the internet and it creates very good advertising for their work and their other ventures such as teaching.

Speaking of that, have you ever thought about teaching? Are you, or could you be set up to have three or four extra people in and around your workshop to do a course on making a coffee table etc? People would pay a few hundred pounds at a time. Perhaps you could approach local schools and colleges also?

I tried to do a course with the Manchester college but a month or so before I started I got a letter through saying they'd cut their budgets and dropped that course as a result. There's not much around this neck of the woods in the way of training so you could be filling a gap in the market.

 

[Graham Orm]

I thought I'd made it perfectly clear that I have never expected the £ to come rolling in!
This is about trying to do something good without having to subsidise every single one of my sales, which is what I did for the first few years of Workshop Essentials. And I'm not talking about labour cost, I mean hard cash spent up front vs receipts.

I'm happy to do the work, as long as it doesn't make me poorer!

Thank you all for the many, varied, considered and constructive contributions to this discussion, it really is much appreciated.

I wasn't implying that you personally were expecting it to be instantly lucrative Steve. Just a generalisation. You have the set up, I would think the only outlay required would be a half decent camera and some good lights, maybe some editing software, lots of free stuff available.

 

[JakeS]

Frank Howarth's videos have about as much to do with woodworking as "The Wrong Trousers" has to do with tailoring.

I'm reminded of a food industry analyst who recently warned Lidl and Aldi to stop introducing new SKUs because "nobody goes to Lidl to buy German meats, they go to get discount essentials". Well actually, yes, I kind of do go to Lidl almost entirely because they have a fantastic range of cured meats (albeit, to be fair to the chap, not always German). So do about two-thirds of the people I personally know who shop there. Where else am I going to find edible speck, bresaola, black forest ham and so on - Waitrose?! Not to mention the best pizza salami I've ever had. Oh, and their prices are pretty good too, I guess.

I have no doubt that some people go to Lidl because their prices are excellent, and I have no doubt that some people view YouTube videos about woodworking purely to learn new techniques. But I also have no doubt that some people go to Lidl to buy German meats, and some people watch woodworking YouTube videos to just watch someone else work through a project because it's fun and engaging and interesting to do so.





If anything I kind of think the stop-motion stuff gets in the way of Howarth's videos half the time. I get the impression that people like Custard - coming from a professional cabinetry background - sometimes miss the point that a lot of these YT channels have, because they're not really in the target audience. For those of us who are hobbyists and work on things at the weekend in our garages, there is interest and value in just watching project videos where someone makes a thing from beginning to end. I mean, Jimmy DiResta is wildly popular and he barely even talks on his videos, speeds all the work up to the point where you can't see what he's doing half the time and makes the kind of thing that your average weekend warrior will never, ever need or want to replicate (shop hoardings and weird knives, half the time). There will undoubtedly be things that people like Custard take for granted that I'll learn from a Frank Howarth video or a DiResta video, but half the time the point is more that it really is that simple to just put things together and end up with something else. When I was younger (and, of course, before YouTube), I assumed that making tables and cabinets was a black art that I had to learn super-secret woodworker skills to do. Seeing a guy build a table from start to finish is an inspiring thing, even if I don't go out and immediately build a duplicate table from that guy's plans. And some people will!

And this leaves aside the pure entertainment value. I'm a software engineer, so I spend all day writing code and - while debugging is a fact of life - I'm largely unsurprised when it does what I expected it to do. I don't want to come home and watch videos of people coding super-simple projects that I could do in an hour or two on my own. My partner, who is an illustrator, marvels when I write a short bit of code to do the simplest things. It's amazing to her! I can understand that to a professional cabinetmaker, joiner or whatever the average YouTube build video is just watching someone do a sloppy, inefficient and over-wrought version of their day job and then ruin it even further at the end by spraying it with polyurethane or painting it pink. But some of us don't find the notion of building a replica-chippendale tallboy that accessible, and it's fun to watch someone else do it. And then ruin it at the end by spraying it in polyurethane or painting it pink.

 

[JakeS]

You need a blog; the blog should probably be on your personal website because something like tumblr limits your amount of followers because you can only follow it and get it in your feed if you're actually on tumblr.

Also because Tumblr is a horrible, horrible place with a horrible, horrible interface filled with horrible, horrible people.



Regarding free vs. paid content: it's not a directly-usable model, but consider the approach Spotify takes: you can listen to music for free as much as you like so long as a) you don't mind adverts between your songs, b) you don't get to order the things that you listen to and probably most cleverly, c) you don't get to download the songs to a local cache on your device. If you want to listen to albums all the way through from beginning to end and not get interrupted by ads, then you pay a subscription fee. And that last point (c): if you're a heavy user from a mobile device (a large proportion of younger generations) then it's going to be more cost-effective to buy a Spotify subscription so you can download the music once and keep it on your phone than having to pay data fees to your mobile provider every single time you listen to a track. Obviously streaming it over and over is also more costly to Spotify, but they've figured out their market and know that it's enough of an enticement to subscribe that it's worth it to them.

The lesson to me is that you hook people with free content and then you persuade those people that they really want to give you money. Some small proportion of Spotify listeners pay for a subscription, but they have enough users overall that it's apparently enough for them.


I wouldn't worry too much about ad blockers, personally. They've been around for ages and it's always been a back-and-forth between people who use them and people who think they're KILLING EVERYTHING. As others have said, YouTube and the like are not the end of the solution - getting popular on YT will get you some income (from ads and from schemes like YouTube Red) but it's as much a means to an end. Once you have an audience, you can get money out of them through any number of other means - selling merchandise works for some people, selling plans, bothering them to subscribe on Patreon or simply sponsorships for your videos, where you get paid directly by the advertiser and adblockers are irrelevant. But to get at all of that, you need to do the work to build up your audience in the first place.









Regarding YouTube, I would look at Bob Claggett (Clagett? Clagget? I forget) of I Like to Make Stuff. He puts out a video more or less once a week, supports his family... and nearly all of the things that he makes are really simple, often rough-looking things. This last week his project was a bike rack made of framing timber nailed together - there's a couple of useful small tips in the video, but the most impressive part of the project was that he didn't once fire the nailer into his hand by accident, and the tricks were things he's mentioned before in other videos. It's received 50k views in less than a day.

Now, ILTMS appeared and became popular almost overnight, by YouTube standards - and it seems to me it's down to two things:
- Very savvy branding and presentation
- One really cool project

The really cool project (a hidden bookcase door - 2.5 million views) is probably a bit of a lucky break, but at the same time there are several other hidden-bookcase tutorial/walkthrough projects on YT which aren't nearly as popular. The savvy branding, I'm pretty certain, is far more influential a factor. And to be blunt, this is an area in which the existing Workshop Essentials material leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[petermillard]

Seems like everyone has a firm opinion of 'what Steve should do...' - except, perhaps, for Steve himself. It also occurs to me that some of the folks posting here may not have see Steve's other threads on the subject - this original one about crowdfunding possibilities, and the follow-up one about Patreon; apologies if all concerned are familiar with the details, I only mention them here as we seem to be re-hashing an awful lot of the same ground in this thread.

One more thought; any and all of us may have an opinion on this, but only Steve Maskery knows how many DVDs he shifted back when Workshop Essentials was a 'vanity project' (his words); that must surely give him a clue as to how likely he is to succeed financially with the next phase of 'W.E.2 - the download'? The rest of us are just blindly whistling in the dark, really...

Cheers, Pete

 

[BearTricks]

You need a blog; the blog should probably be on your personal website because something like tumblr limits your amount of followers because you can only follow it and get it in your feed if you're actually on tumblr.

Also because Tumblr is a horrible, horrible place with a horrible, horrible interface filled with horrible, horrible people.

I don't agree about the interface, I think it's probably the best of all the blogging platforms. That particular site is just an example of bad design. I think it's a shame on tumblr because it was adopted by groups of very talented artists and writers and became the cool place to be for a while, then because of that a lot of people with nothing to offer flooded in and turned it in to a cesspit.

There was probably a time when the owners of the site were riding high on the fact that the best artists and makers on the internet were using their platform, now it's full of angry teenagers with opinions that aren't developed enough to share, all trying to shout the loudest. Tumblr has become a byword for the internet's entitled, self centered youth and I'm sure the owners don't like the negative stigma because it's sending the site in to a downward spiral quality-wise, but at the same time they cant do anything about it because there's millions of those users and they've replaced what's making them money.

I might have a soft spot for Tumblr because I got on their 'radar', which is a rotating gallery of maybe five featured posts that everyone who visits the site sees, with a painting that I'd done. This was perhaps three years ago. I had google analytics running and I got a few million hits on my page over the next couple of days.

Now if that was YouTube and I had some advertisements going, I'd have made some money out of it. I thought of adding a PayPal donate button at the time because I was bound to get a few quid out of those people visiting but I felt as if it was probably exploitative. I should have done it, because ultimately nothing came of that and now I only visit Tumblr because there are a few artists on there holding the fort.

That's an idea actually Steve. Add a PayPal donate button to your website and periodically ask for donations. I didn't used to like it because it seemed like begging, but with crowdfunding now a big thing it's not a big deal and people are happy to donate a couple of quid to something that's helping them out. I think people are also a lot more forgiving of those things when they know you're not raking it in. Also set up a newsletter using something like MailChimp. You can get a good quality newsletter going fairly easily and it keeps people updated with what you're up to so they know when you're bringing out a new product.

 

[custard]

it's full of angry teenagers with opinions that aren't developed enough to share, all trying to shout the loudest.

Substitute "pensioners" for "teenagers" and you've neatly described sharpening threads in the hand tool section!

 

[Mr_P]

I looked into paypal donate button a while back for an idea I had, wasn't suitable unless you are genuine good cause / charity.

Then I discovered patreon and I'll go down that route when I decide the time is right. You don't have to go for monthly you can use it a bit like crowdfunding and just ask for x per project / episode. As Pete M has just said this has all been covered and we are going round in circles here.

 

[Wildman]

Steve's workshop = Good size for UK but nothing wow sorry.
Frank Howarth = Wow omg thats huge even by American standards.

So not a very fair comparrison.

Didn't work it out but some videos are 9 years including one on turning chess pawns with nearly 200k at nine years old and thats included in the 19 million.

This is one of his famous ones, 900k views in about 2.5 years
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7l3_THa-Yk

Most of his videos don't appear to have ads ?

If all his videos had ads would he have as many subscribers / views ?

He's doing it for the love not the money.

This time 18 months ago had anyone heard of doing it anyother way than youtube ???
Patreon/vimeo are all pretty new to me. The internet is changing and its changing fast. I'm sure Steve could build a following on youtube but he might be retired by then, plus youtube revenues in another 5 years might be even lower. Might even be gone/ dead on its feet, who knows. Remember friends reunited or myspace. Yahoo had it all 16 years ago they even had ebay before ebay, I bought a car on yahoo auctions and loads of other stuff.

just seen this for the first time, the filming is ace, so clever and obviously done for love rather than money. Steve like all of us you want to make a living doing what you do best, it appears to me that teaching small groups is the way to go, you can build a following using Youtube, and many woodwork forums. Or maybe your educational vids/DVD's could be the by product and pin money resulting from short run commercial products and commissions. Full or part time lecturing at schools/colleges. Your skill is unquestionable, how to turn that into a living is everybody's endless quest. Do you have a spare room so you could take paying students on 121 courses, all these and more ideas have no doubt been thought of and suggested before so Good luck.

 

[JakeS]

Getting a bit off-topic, but:

That particular site is just an example of bad design.

FWIW: it's not on tumblr at all. It's just an article that talks about - amongst other things - why tumblr is an awful place. Search for the bit that says "So let’s talk about Tumblr" for the beginning of that section, if you're interested in Scott Alexander's point of view.

The part I strongly dislike about Tumblr's interface is the same part that he complains about - that it's impossible for people to just leave comments at the bottom of posts, they have to "reblog" the entire bloody post onto their own blog and then add commentary.

I was going to say "the part I like the least about Tumblr's interface, but the part I like the least is that they recently seem to have followed Pinterest's "my way or the highway" approach and actually insist that you have a Tumblr account before you can even read blogs on Tumblr. That alone makes it completely and utterly unsuitable for any kind of commercial presence, even leaving aside the awful UI choices and the roving gangs of teenage fascists.



Curiously, as soon as we started discussing Tumblr, the ads on the side of the page have started showing Italian lingerie instead of combination squares and Japanese saws. Huh.

 

[monkeybiter]

Curiously, as soon as we started discussing Tumblr, the ads on the side of the page have started showing Italian lingerie instead of combination squares and Japanese saws. Huh.

Mine's still showing tools, I think it's just you :wink:

 

[Benchwayze]

it's full of angry teenagers with opinions that aren't developed enough to share, all trying to shout the loudest.

Substitute "pensioners" for "teenagers" and you've neatly described sharpening threads in the hand tool section!

There speaks someone who is secure in the certainty of his own immortality! :lol:

Age happens to us all, as there is but one alternative to growing old. We have one choice in the matter; we can age gracefully! (hammer)

Regards 8)

 

[sploo]

My $0.02...

I've long been fascinated by these YouTube content creators and how the economics actually work - mostly, if I'm honest, because I wish I had that kind of time to dedicate to being creative. This inquisitiveness is only increased by interviews I've seen where some have noted that the money you make on video viewings is tiny.

It hasn't escaped my attention that, over time, you tend to spot clues by implication from their videos or writing, and to be fair, occasionally explicit statements and honest answers to questions. I won't name names because it'll look like I'm talking down their achievements in "going it alone" (which is not my intention), but I will say that it likely makes a big difference if you happen to own property which you rent out, have family businesses (run by parents to which you occasionally contribute), have a spouse on a high income that "invests" in your idea etc. All of those could easily result in a few hundred pounds/dollars per month of income - which could well be enough to make the difference between getting by or having to jack it in and return to the day job.

Certainly if a young guy (40s at the oldest) has quit his job and has just built a workshop in his garden that must have cost at least $100k (I've seen estimates of $400k for one particular YouTuber's workshop) there must be investment or capital coming from somewhere. That's not something I could do.

So, I think perspective on realistic income is required.

OK, on a more positive note: Steve; what's your USP?

I'm not getting into marketing babble, but why should I pay you for anything? What do I think when I see/hear of your channel? If it's Matthias Wandel, it's obviously machinery/gearing/crazy inventions/a "renaissance" man. Frank Howarth: great entertaining video production/nice segmented turning. Paul Sellers: old school master craftsman. Colin Furze: Erm.... bonkers :wink:

Steve? Well, jigs perhaps. In fact, I can't immediately think of another "jigs" guy - which is of course a good thing.

How to monetise that? Well, Wandell's videos are free, but he sells plans for his machines. You'd probably be having to make several hundred sales a month for a decent income, but a good 5-10 minute (free) YouTube video showing how to make an unusual/useful/unique jig would be entertaining, and contain just enough information to whet my appetite to pay a fiver for a set of dimensioned SketchUp plans in order to build one myself.

One other avenue: training. You now have the workshop space, so could you offer training courses (in part advertised/promoted by your videos)? Granted that opens a huge can of worms re insurance and liability, but most such training courses I've seen seem to be in the £100/day region.

Four students for a weekend's work once a month is £800. One hundred £5 plan sales a month is £500. That's £1300pcm (pre tax and overheads) right there. Granted I suspect it's nowhere near that easy or we'd all be doing it.

EDIT: typo fix

 

[Wizard9999]

So, I think perspective on realistic income is required...

OK, on a more positive note: Steve; what's your USP?

How to monetise that? Well, Wandell's videos are free, but he sells plans for his machines. You'd probably be having to make several hundred sales a month for a decent income, but a good 5-10 minute (free) YouTube video showing how to make an unusual/useful/unique jig would be entertaining, and contain just enough information to whet my appetite to pay a fiver for a set of dimensioned SketchUp plans in order to build one myself.

I'm not sure the right question is being addressed in this thread, maybe the question has changed since it started or was just misunderstood in the first place, but Steve most recently said (my emphasis)...

I thought I'd made it perfectly clear that I have never expected the £ to come rolling in!
This is about trying to do something good without having to subsidise every single one of my sales, which is what I did for the first few years of Workshop Essentials. And I'm not talking about labour cost, I mean hard cash spent up front vs receipts.

I'm happy to do the work, as long as it doesn't make me poorer!

Based on that I do not think it is a question of making an income, it is about not losing money doing it. With digital delivery via YouTube I presume there is very little cost over and above time, so presumably it is more about recovering the cost of any initial investment.

Terry.

 

[Flynnwood]

Hi Steve

Park up internet (for now) if your primary concern is to get some money coming in. [1]

Get face to face with as many people as possible (retail and trade).

[1] Painting may not be a first choice but you can do it, and small steps will lead to others.

Follow the money, the rest can wait a while.

IMVHO

 

[wcndave]

Another $0.02 in short summary form.

Create your community:

• Post videos on YouTube (understanding that production values are important)
• Post key moments (announce new project, project complete, new video) on Facebook - no blogging there.
• Blog on your own site - text and photo details in a follow along method like you've done here on UKW.
• Post only interesting or new or odd things, or highlights on UKW that would interest seasoned veterans

Then make it a little commercial

1. Put premium content (projects and WE2) online as paid for online content, linking from YT / FB / Blog
2. Put Patreon button on blog and just see what happens
3. Put Ads on all YT content
4. Post the odd subtle reminder of your content on UKW, as part of other posts you make ;-)

Small steps, and see what happens.