2. Steve's Workshop- The Commissioning and Production

[DiscoStu]

YouTube is good. I like being able to subscribe to certain channels and get updates when a new video is posted. I enjoy Peter Parfitt and subscribe to his channel.


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[Steve Maskery]

Sorry not to make all this clear yesterday, but I was not expecting to be in hospital overnight and I was rapidly running out of battery.

When I said FB I meant blogging the filming process. I think if I blog that here in the same way that I blogged the build, I shall annoy quite a few people, as that will be very obviously promoting my films, and this is not the right place to do that (even though some of our members are the right audience). But of course, there is no use blogging anything where no-one is going to see it.

So I shall post the occasional update here, or just edit my signature as I have done, and blog on FB.

I've not yet decided how I shall distribute any films. Some will be FB shorts, free to the world, just like my existing ones. But I do need to find a way to make money too. I don't have a job, I'm too young for a pension and somehow I need to try to earn a living. And whilst it is true to say that you can make money from YT, you need an ENORMOUS following to earn a TINY income, IIUIC. Certainly 4k subscribers doesn't come close, that's just a Christmas Card list.

So I've either got to sell per film, like my existing model only download rather than DVD, or go the subscription route, like Patreon. I'm inclined to try the latter, but it is still a modest model. Steve Ramsey is the biggest I've found and his is still only1600 dollars per month. Patreon will take their cut, CC companies will take theirs and then he has all his production costs and hosting costs. I bet there is not much left.

And he is the biggest. If I got, say, just 500 as turnover, and there are lots of artists there for whom that is more typical, out of which came all my costs, you have to ask is it worth it?

Filming and distribution is not free, and I have to get better at persuading people to part with money for it. I'm going to try to fund the capital layout with crowdfunding, as I simply can't afford do all this again as a vanity project, like I did last time. But I am not at all sure that I shall succeed. With a 5K target, I would receive about 4.5K of that, and within that there is very little contingency indeed. And that is just capital outlay, never mind the actual work itself.

I shall live or die by popular opinion, and that is a very scary prospect indeed.

Anyway, I'm not ready to launch yet and I still feel a bit weird after my GA yesterday, so I'm going to lie down in a darkened room and wake up in April.

 

[rdesign]

from someone who views your posts a lot and enjoys them. there is no problem with you using the forum, just create a new wip for each project / sub projects. If you want to show us the filming stuff that is interesting just put it in the general chat off topic! how can that be a problem.

I don't have much funds at this minute dam christmas .... but when I do i'll happily give a small donation towards it.

If people feel they can't post what they are making or doing when its related to our hobby woodworking or filming woodworking videos.. whats the point of this forum. which is great by the way

keep up the good stuff and get better! on a plus note if monster threads aren't allowed any more you will have the record for ever more of the biggest, longest and most viewed wip so not al bad

Regards Richard

 

[petermillard]

When I said FB I meant blogging the filming process.... But of course, there is no use blogging anything where no-one is going to see it.

Given some people's (understandable) reluctance regarding FaceBook, could you not add a blog to your workshop essentials website and duplicate the posts there, and/or on Google+/tumblr/wherever?

I've not yet decided how I shall distribute any films...

Have you seen Vimeo's On Demand service Steve? Came across it the other day and whilst I haven't dug into it too deeply, it looks almost perfect for smaller-scale distribution of 'paid for' content; well worth a look, I think.

Speedy recovery.

Pete

 

[Steve Maskery]

I don't have much funds at this minute dam christmas .... but when I do i'll happily give an enormous donation towards it.

Thank you Richard

Given some people's (understandable) reluctance regarding FaceBook, could you not add a blog to your workshop essentials website and duplicate the posts there, and/or on Google+/tumblr/wherever?

Whilst I do have the source code for my site, it is an off-the-shelf opensource product and it has NO documentation in the code. It makes it very difficult to edit. And whilst I have done coding in the past, that was a very long time ago and I no longer have the skills. I'm not saying a blog cannot be added, but I'd have to get someone else to do it.

Actually, I think the reality is that the whole site needs to be re-written, it looks dated and is not very mobile friendly (although I think the current version is - it's just that if I upgraded I would lose the edits I have made and whilst there are not many of them they are very useful and I've no idea how, or where, I made them...) There is someone on here who offered his help with all that. I forget who it was, I will have to hunt, but I've not forgotten his generous offer.

Have you seen Vimeo's On Demand service Steve? Came across it the other day and whilst I haven't dug into it too deeply, it looks almost perfect for smaller-scale distribution of 'paid for' content; well worth a look, I think.

That does look like something well worth investigating, thank you Pete.

I really need to crack on with this, I spend far too much time thinking about it and not enough time doing something about it.

But today is definitely a thinking day. And not even much of that...

 

[Wizard9999]

I don't have much funds at this minute dam christmas .... but when I do i'll happily give an enormous donation towards it.

Thank you Richard

=D> :lol:

 

[brianhabby]

I still think YouTube is a viable option, at least to get you started. I don't know how much Steve Ramsey makes from Patreon but I do know he was making a living from You Tube long before he found Patreon.

If nothing else, YT is a great platform for testing and giving small trailers with links to paid options, which is something many people on there do. Plus it is where people expect to find this kind of stuff.

You will have to take everything on board and make up your mind which way to go and whatever you decide, I wish you all the best in your endeavours. And get well soon.

regards

Brian

 

[monkeybiter]

There are plenty of YouTube woodworking channels with people not just producing but showing work to a very ordinary standard, and many of these receive sponsorship and the resulting freebies from manufacturers.
If you were prepared to create a line of informative and fun videos/tutorials but perhaps to a less exacting standard than you would prefer, you might be able to reach a liveable compromise with enough moderate success to make you happy.
You could also produce a more exclusive and perhaps lucrative line of higher end tutorials/guides.

 

[BearTricks]

I wouldn't use Facebook. I'm 25 so I'm probably in the target audience for Facebook but I can tell you that everything on Facebook aside from the main wall and the chat function is a nuisance to use. Add to that the day that a lot of people are against it and you're already losing potential views.

I'd focus on YouTube, and integrate a blog function in to your website. No blog platform is ideal because there are dozens of them and none have really pushed through to the top like Twitter and YouTube have done, so you might as well make it as easy as you can and bundle it right in with the rest of your stuff. Just use YouTube to host videos because it's free and ubiquitous and then embed in to your site.

If you do well enough on YouTube you can be generating money from 'free' content such as small videos and promos and trailers for your paid content while still offering premium content on your website.

One way to do it is through making the first video in a series free, then people have to pay for the rest of the series through your site.

If you look at the likes of Frank Howarth on YouTube with his process videos, then combine it with what Paul Sellers is doing you might be on to something. I'd probably be inclined to look at your stuff over Paul Sellers because something about him irks me.

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[JakeS]

Some will be FB shorts, free to the world, just like my existing ones.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I got the impression it's basically impossible to monetise FB video, while with YouTube if you get enough views/subscribers you can actually make some money out of it.

And whilst it is true to say that you can make money from YT, you need an ENORMOUS following to earn a TINY income, IIUIC. Certainly 4k subscribers doesn't come close, that's just a Christmas Card list.

To be blunt: you also barely have anything on YouTube. There's sixteen woodworking videos on your channel, of which the most recent is two years old and the next most recent four years old - there's nothing for people to subscribe to at the moment.

I very much doubt that the YouTube ship has sailed, but you'd most likely need to produce videos consistently - say, once a month at minimum - and keep making interesting content for a while before your subscriber count would go up to the point you can make a living.

Patreon ... Steve Ramsey is the biggest I've found and his is still only1600 dollars per month. Patreon will take their cut, CC companies will take theirs and then he has all his production costs and hosting costs. I bet there is not much left.

My partner subscribes to a digital artist on Patreon who gets something ridiculous like $25k a month for doing art tutorials and watch-me-paint videos. She shows people the final images she produces, but if you want to see the videos or the tutorials you have to subscribe. I think the problem with woodworking content is that a) there's a lot of it freely available, and b) the people who are on Patreon also produce free content. It seems from what I've seen that the key to a successful Patreon career is to start with an existing audience and then tell them that they only way they can get new stuff is to support you on Patreon.

I wonder if something more like Marc Spagnuolo's "Wood Whisperer Guild" might be a better approach than going through something like Patreon - but again, he gained an audience by putting consistent quality free content up on YouTube, and then told people that they could pay to be in a super-secret members' club where people could all chat to each other and watch super-secret members-only videos. He's still eating, so one presumes it worked out OK for him.

Filming and distribution is not free, and I have to get better at persuading people to part with money for it.

The question to my mind is: do you, really? A lot of people are making money on the free-video-on-YouTube-with-ads model, and a lot of other people are making money on the free-video-with-paid-supplements model, after all.

You're good at explaining things, present a genial personality, and your existing videos are great - to the point, easy to follow, and describing useful jigs and modifications. I don't doubt that people would subscribe and keep watching. If I were in your position, I'd be tempted to:
- Remove and re-upload your existing useful-tutorial videos (luthier clamp, finger-joint jig) to YouTube
- Use more enticing/general-appeal titles ("Build your own wooden luthier clamps from scrap wood", "Cut box joints on the router table easily")
- Get some slick modern-graphics title-cards for your videos and don't let the title run more than three to five seconds (see, say, "I Like To Make Stuff" for a really good example of graphical branding)
- Use a similar, unified branding on video preview pictures, rather than relying on YouTube's automatic random-point-in-video preview
- If you can remaster them in any better video quality than they already are, that's a bonus.
- Over the next few weeks/months/whatever you think you could commit to as a release schedule, drip feed a couple of other similar projects from your DVDs ("Make your own Biesmeyer-style table saw fence for $x with no welding", for example, would probably be a good one). So far, this costs you nothing but a bit of time - and keeps you busy.
- Find out how to turn on monetisation of your YouTube videos and do that. (I think I once saw someone suggest you had to have so many views, but who knows. I have some options that look related in my YouTube console and I have sixteen whole subscribers - and I'm not sure why that many!)
- As soon as you can, start recording new projects and tail onto the end of your existing ones. Maybe even re-record some existing ones in HD, if you ever notice any getting particularly popular.


I'm sure some people are massive video snobs but I very much doubt that most people would refuse to watch decent content in DVD-quality in 2016; the above gives you (IMO) a better chance of attracting viewers than your current channel, and it's relatively risk-free - the only thing you have to give up is the exclusivity of a few of your jigs to your DVDs, and you can always remove them from YouTube if the experiment hasn't gone anywhere after a year. From what you've said the DVDs aren't massively profitable to you anyway, so maybe it's worth the risk?

 

[Graham Orm]

Steve. For your information. I, as are many on here I'm sure, am a regular You Tube viewer, often choosing to watch it with headphones when the wife is watching wedding dress shows with my daughter. Woodworking shows are my main consumption. I have a long list of favourite makers that I follow. Some are better than others, the ones who are most professional usually have a 'pay to view' option. I have only gone up this route once with Rob Cosman. I can't see myself doing it again, however a lot of guys will and do. Even if only as a one off as I did.
The most professional film maker in my opinion is Frank Howarth, who loads all his stuff for free.
John Heisz has developed from an occasional poster to a full on weekly up loader with a long list of jigs and shop bits and bobs that he sells the drawings for. I have Adblocker which prevents all the pop up ads on YT. John made a request on one of his videos for folks to switch off Ad-Blocker so that the ads would run and he could benefit. I did.
He also now has a forum on his site which I recently joined. It's small but attended daily and will work well to keep punters watching and connected. I'm interested to see how his site developes. He doesn't make fine furniture, just basic stuff, but he is talented and original.

I think everyone on here is willing you forward. Just do it, stop dithering and get stuck in. You know you will have a head start with all the members here on your side. ;-)

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I think that's about the best idea I've heard in a very long time indeed. Funded YT is definitely the modern way forward and I have no doubt whatsoever Steve would garner a good sized loyal following for three reasons that have all been stated by different people in this thread namely:

He's good at what he does and a good teacher
He's already a "face" which is about as close to celebrity as woodworking gets
He's blinkin well British and I for one tire of hearing American accents dominate the published footage on woodworking. Not because I'm xenophobic or anything silly like that, just because often the tools and surroundings aren't really relevant to the British woodworker.

Even if Steve just filmed his daily bits n bobs in the workshop and posted it, the following would be there from which it would provide a platform to market WE or other forms of media. That would avoid what may well be considerable efforts in production planning and editing to submit a very slick published product. I think there is scope for a more "in the raw" type approach which is quite the opposite of Frank Howarth. Don't forget he's an architect and clearly a talented animator in the Wallace & Gromit sense. Those lengths need not be repeated for a valuable niche to be occupied that would receive viewers. I think that because woodworking is a niche special interest group it almost always fails to get much attention from mainstream TV and the few shows that have aired rarely get commissioned for multiple seasons. Norm being the classic exception of course but then he's.......American again....aggghhhh. So YT is the ideal medium because it cuts out all the middle men. I don't know a lot about it but my understanding is that regular youtubers get paid according to the number of views they get? Is that right? Does anyone know how the economics of YT work?

 

[monkeybiter]

Even if Steve just filmed his daily bits n bobs in the workshop and posted it, the following would be there from which it would provide a platform to market WE or other forms of media. That would avoid what may well be considerable efforts in production planning and editing to submit a very slick published product. I think there is scope for a more "in the raw" type approach

I agree entirely. You can create a constant flow of vids without having to constantly graft in the pursuit of production values. People will watch. Then maybe release a monthly/quarterly special.

 

[Graham Orm]

From Facebook.

 

[custard]

I don't know a lot about it but my understanding is that regular youtubers get paid according to the number of views they get? Is that right? Does anyone know how the economics of YT work?

It's all about advertising.

Which coincidentally is where this discussion began. The rules of this forum recognise that advertising will tend to creep like ivy over the internet, and therefore UK Workshop has rules in place to prevent that,

"These forums are not the place for you to advertise your own product or company or post any affiliate or referral links in general threads."

I've nothing against Steve and wish his venture every success. However, I think a pinned thread on the main forum serving as a promotional platform contravenes this and, more seriously, opens the door for others to seek the same arrangement, which would clog up this forum to the detriment of everyone. I guess Steve agreed because he then asked to have his threads unpinned which, as far as I'm concerned, is the end of the matter. Actually I'd personally be more liberal with advertising than the forum rules technically allow (I really don't see the need to exclude promotional links in signatures for example, you can choose to click or not as you wish) it's just pinning which crosses a sensible red line.

But back to your question, how does YouTube work, it's simply all about advertising. And looked at in that context Graham Orm's post is the important one, because he raised the critical issue of Ad Blockers, which have the potential to change the look and content of the internet out of all recognition.

Google, Apple, and Face Book are locked in a struggle for supremacy. They hate each other. Google (who owns You Tube) gets most of its money from advertising. So Apple came up with the wizard wheeze that by enabling Ad Blockers on OS X and iOS 9 they could hurt Google's earnings. It's working in trumps.

Graham Orm may have had the decency to switch off his Ad Blocker when viewing a favourite site, but he's in a tiny minority. Most users are realising that web pages load way faster with an Ad Blocker, their phone batteries last longer, plus they're spared the increasingly intrusive advertising that's becoming a growing irritant (remember my earlier point about advertising creeping like ivy). Consequently I believe over 30% of page views are now covered by an ad blocker and that number is growing all the time.

Here's the rub. You make money on You Tube not by having a big audience, but by showing that audience ads along with your content. With Ad Blockers in place you can have the best content and the biggest audience in the world, but if they don't see the ads then you don't receive any money.

Now the bigger players have solutions, sponsored ads and ads disguised as bona fide content. But for the small blogger and content provider Ad Blockers are potentially ruinous. Why would you bother creating and posting content when your revenue is dwindling away?

That's the reason Bob that I disagree with your recommendation. Starting a business based on free content on You Tube right now is like trying to get into a building when someone inside has just shouted "Fire!" and everyone's rushing out.

If you're interested in reading more there was a famous article written in 2015 (ancient history now!) called Welcome To The Block Party which is still widely quoted,

http://www.theawl.com/2015/09/welcome-t ... lock-party

 

[Mr_P]

I've read a fair few mentions over the last few years saying the glory days of making decent money on youtube have well and truly passed. This online calculator seems to back this up

http://youtubemoney.co/

100,000 views per month
Estimated Revenue:
Between $136.00 USD - $340.00 USD per month

$340 US Dollar = £235.44 British Pound (todays rates).

The values above are based on the typical RPM range from $1.36 to $3.40.
(Revenue per 1000 Impressions).

Personally I think 100k views per month is on the very high/ optimistic side but you get my drift, a lot of views for not that much money.

 

[Wizard9999]

I think for many the internet has misled them into believing that content is free. We will pay now or later, either by making it economically worthwhile for content to be provided or by losing a lot of content when people stop creating it. There will still be content of course, some people are seduced by the belief that they too can become a celebrity by posting YouTube videos, but this type of content is rarely the best (though there are always exceptions to every rule).

Terry.

 

[petermillard]

There are plenty of 'how much do YouTubers earn' videos on YouTube, and the ones I've seen broadly agree with what Mr_P quotes above; $2-3k for each 1 million views, though ad rates do vary - click away from that ad after 4 seconds and it doesn't count as 'viewed' and like Custard says, ad blockers are also an issue for the content creators, even if it does make the overall viewing experience more pleasant for the punter. There's also the more recent problem of people 'sharing' YouTube videos to FaceBook, who oddly enough, don't share ad revenue on these videos; needless to say the take-down process is lengthy and convoluted, during which time your videos are generating revenue for FaceBook, not you...

So all things considered, unless you're 'vlogging' on daily basis and getting hundreds of thousands of views on each video, it's should come as no surprise that YouTubers typically look for other revenue streams - they sell t-shirts and hats, they rattle the tin at patreon, they do client work etc...

And at the risk of stating the obvious Steve, not to have vlogged about your workshop build is a massive missed opportunity IMHO.

Cheers, Pete

 

[Steve Maskery]

I think Mr_P has summed up the stark reality nicely.

100,000 per month.

To put that into perspective, my Luthier Clamp video, which is probably one that has broadest appeal, hasn't (quite) had 100,000 views in five years.

Perhaps I should get a cat.

 

[Mr_P]

Or just stick to the original plan, crowd funding, patreon, paywall, etc.....

4,460 youtube subscribers if you can get 5% of them to give you £5 a month that equals

223 * £5 = £1,115 per month

Sounds very doable to a man with your following.