10" sliding table saw - crosscutting?

[BodgerM_497]

Hello all.

I recently used a friends commercial/monstrous panel saw - the type with a sliding table stroke of 2+ metres and 15" blade - to true up some plywood. Seeing the benefits then for my own mdoest home workshop I have just bought a Record TS250C that was on offer.

1. However since I've not been woodworking that long, I'm hoping for some clarity on cross cutting mainly hardwood boards.
   Is it always preferable to use the sliding table over building a cross cut sled that seem ubiquitous on youtube? Both for safety and straightness of the stroke?
   
   
2. If so, is the included extrusion mitre fence (see photo) genuinely up to the job, or should I look for a beefier aftermarket model?
   

All advice gratefully received.

 

[Ollie78]

The sliding table is much better than a crosscut sled. This saw doesn`t seem to have the slots you would use for a sled anyway.
However, in practice you may find the supplied mitre guage is crap, they almost always are for some reason,
So you may find yourself making a fixed 90 degree jig that goes on to the sliding table, either with wedges for comon angles or separate ones for what you use a lot. If you add an over centre clamp you can really hold the workpiece down securely, like on a big panel saw.

Also blade choice is important.

 

[BodgerM_497]

The sliding table is much better than a crosscut sled. This saw doesn`t seem to have the slots you would use for a sled anyway.
However, in practice you may find the supplied mitre guage is rubbish, they almost always are for some reason,
So you may find yourself making a fixed 90 degree jig that goes on to the sliding table, either with wedges for comon angles or separate ones for what you use a lot. If you add an over centre clamp you can really hold the workpiece down securely, like on a big panel saw.

Also blade choice is important.

Thank you for the advice - makes sense.

Can I clarify (being fairly new as I said above):

1) Why exactly is a sliding table is better?

2) For a home made mitre fence, would a book matched straight grained hardwood by wise? With a toggle clamp mounted on top face?

 

[Ollie78]

Thank you for the advice - makes sense.

Can I clarify (being fairly new as I said above):

1) Why exactly is a sliding table is better?

2) For a home made mitre fence, would a book matched straight grained hardwood by wise? With a toggle clamp mounted on top face?

1.
The sliding table runs on bearings or at least bushings. This provides a consistent straight, flat, and smooth motion and should last a long time. You can clamp things to it as well.
A crosscut sled is usually made with wooden runners that sit in the slots machined in the table saws bed, this can easily wear, expand and contract with weather etc. also you need to have the correct slots on the table in the first place.

Personally I very rarely use a crosscut sled. I do have one but most of the cuts can be done on the sliding mitre saw,

2.
A decent hardwood should be fine but I wouldn`t waste a nice bookmatched piece on a jig.
Birch ply is the best, followed other decent plywood followed by moisture resitant mdf. Or a combinationof ply and hardwood etc
Depends on the clamp, you may want to raise it on a block.

 

[Orraloon]

While most miter gauges that come with saws are not the best because the guide bar is often a bit sloppy in the slot. In your application where it gets locked in place then that should not be a problem. Before binning it at least try checking the angles of a few test cuts. The extruded miter fence can be replaced with wood and that would be better for clamping the work.
Regards
John

 

[Sgian Dubh]

1. However since I've not been woodworking that long, I'm hoping for some clarity on cross cutting mainly hardwood boards.
   Is it always preferable to use the sliding table over building a cross cut sled that seem ubiquitous on youtube? Both for safety and straightness of the stroke?
   
   
2. If so, is the included extrusion mitre fence (see photo) genuinely up to the job, or should I look for a beefier aftermarket model?

Forget about building a cross cut sled with that saw, it's a waste of time because of the existing cross cut fence, which is good enough for basic cross cutting, and also forget about getting an after market cross cut fence because that's a waste of money.

If I was in your position and had decent money to spend on a saw as you seem to having committed to spending nearly £1000 on the model you show I'd raise my spend by about £700 and buy the next model up, the TS250RS-PK/A. That assumes you have the space for it of course, but it has significantly increased cross cutting capacity over the model you've chosen, but you can, at a push, lower the larger cross cutting table to save space only raising it for when you really need it.

Finally, as you admit to having limited experience (evidenced in part by the very nature of the questions you asked) I strongly suggest you seek some decent training in safe use of table or bench saws. Certainly do NOT rely on lessons from amateur American woodworkers showing off their cabinet sawing techniques on YouTube; their practices generally fall, in terms of safety, a long way short of the practices taught and expected here in the UK. Slainte.

 

[MarkAW]

I have a question. Does the entire left side of the table slide? - it's a bit different to my Charnwood w629.
By comparison, looks a lot closer to the blade. Beware of where you put your hands

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I have a question. Does the entire left side of the table slide?

Yes. Slainte.

 

[Sideways]

Unlike the commercial one you have experienced, the crosscut capacity of the saw you bought using its slider is quite limited. Best to recognise that at the outset.

If you are cutting pieces that are relatively lightweight and no more than 2-3 feet long you should be good. Think components of smaller hardwood furniture.
If you want to "crosscut" mdf cabinetry, kitchen worktop, or the like, get a tracksaw as well.
If you want to crosscut long stuff, get a sliding mitre saw.

If the slot in your sliding table is a T slot as it looks, then that slot can be used by various types of hold down or T track clamp to secure your work to the slider.

 

[Doug71]

I would always choose a sliding table over a sled.

Once you get a bit more experience with the saw look up Fritz & Franz jig, it can be quite a useful thing on a sliding saw especially if cutting small parts.

 

[Cabinetman]

I have one of these, a Sedgwick which has a crosscut side sliding thing, they are about £3k new but within your budget second hand, totally bomb proof. I have had mine (s/h) for almost 20 years now and still faultless, highly recommend. The cross cut drops down out of the way when not needed and I use mine without the white table.
Ian

 

[Doug71]

@Cabinetman I was originally after a Sedgwick like yours but ended up getting a proper slider/panel saw and turns out I'm glad I did. Will be interested to hear how you find your new combi with the table sliding next to blade compared to the hybrid type Sedgwick (I know you didn't like the Minimax fence).

 

[Cabinetman]

Haha, yes the rip fence was a nightmare, the slider I’m still not sure about tbh, after the Sedgwick it’s time consuming and I haven’t got my head round fastening the wood down to cut it each time, but tbh I’ve hardly had time to play with it properly yet.
( I am leaving my big saw behind when I emigrate for those that don’t know)

Ps sorry OP just looked back and you have already bought your new saw. Brill, just remember to pull the fence back when ripping, I know you are new to this - if you were to draw an imaginary line from the tip of the blade nearest to you away at a 45 degree angle, that’s where the far end of the fence should stop, it’s to prevent bits of wood being thrown back at you. Similarly when cross cutting the fence should be not even up to the blade level.
Ian

 

[BodgerM_497]

Finally, as you admit to having limited experience (evidenced in part by the very nature of the questions you asked) I strongly suggest you seek some decent training in safe use of table or bench saws. Certainly do NOT rely on lessons from amateur American woodworkers showing off their cabinet sawing techniques on YouTube; their practices generally fall, in terms of safety, a long way short of the practices taught and expected here in the UK. Slainte.

Fear not, I continue to have excellent work working tuition from a local furniture maker turned instructor. It was his commercial sliding table saw (actually on reflection its stroke is likely 3+ metres..!) that I’ve been learning on eg. Understanding kickback, correct work holding etc etc. I’ve also been metalworking (lathes) long before woodwork so respecting machinery is ingrained! Yeah some of the American YouTube ‘preachers’ are dubious….

1.
The sliding table runs on bearings or at least bushings. This provides a consistent straight, flat, and smooth motion and should last a long time. You can clamp things to it as well.
A crosscut sled is usually made with wooden runners that sit in the slots machined in the table saws bed, this can easily wear, expand and contract with weather etc. also you need to have the correct slots on the table in the first place.

Personally I very rarely use a crosscut sled. I do have one but most of the cuts can be done on the sliding mitre saw,

2.
A decent hardwood should be fine but I wouldn`t waste a nice bookmatched piece on a jig.
Birch ply is the best, followed other decent plywood followed by moisture resitant mdf. Or a combinationof ply and hardwood etc
Depends on the clamp, you may want to raise it on a block.

Thanks for replying at the outset and thorough explanations. I’m add in some toggle clamps as you suggested.

If the slot in your sliding table is a T slot as it looks, then that slot can be used by various types of hold down or T track clamp to secure your work to the slider.

Presumably this is mit der for odd shaped parts, eg live edge boards, or even trimming assemblies?

I would always choose a sliding table over a sled.

Once you get a bit more experience with the saw look up Fritz & Franz jig, it can be quite a useful thing on a sliding saw especially if cutting small parts.

Thanks. Yeah related I’d have to loose the crew guard with a sled too, which is pretty sketchy!

Brill, just remember to pull the fence back when ripping, I know you are new to this - if you were to draw an imaginary line from the tip of the blade nearest to you away at a 45 degree angle, that’s where the far end of the fence should stop, it’s to prevent bits of wood being thrown back at you. Similarly when cross cutting the fence should be not even up to the blade level.
Ian

Sorry not sure what you meant RE rippping. Is it to allow plenty of rip fence towards rear of the table to push work well beyond blade/riding knife, whilst still riding against the fence?

 

[Cabinetman]

@BodgerM_497 whoops, no exact opposite, the smaller the width you are cutting the less fence on the table, the uk safety rules mean that if you were cutting a 5mm slice off a piece of wood the end of the fence would be just past the sawtooth nearest to you. As you cut wider pieces the fence can be pushed further onto the table, this amount is shown by a 45 degree line running from that nearest tooth towards the far back R/H corner of the table.
This means that all the YouTubeists showing a fence the full depth of the saw (usually Americans) are in fact an accident waiting to happen. To be fair they are supplied with fences that fasten front and back, also they don’t know any better, ( what I have described above is akin to heresy in America) it’s relatively easy to fasten a piece of adjustable wood to a full depth fence to achieve the same effect as described above.
Ian

 

[Silken]

I have one of these, a Sedgwick which has a crosscut side sliding thing, they are about £3k new but within your budget second hand, totally bomb proof. I have had mine (s/h) for almost 20 years now and still faultless, highly recommend. The cross cut drops down out of the way when not needed and I use mine without the white table.
Ian
View attachment 184717

That's a nice saw, with a solid cast iron bed, much more sturdy and accurate than the pressed steel beds. Is it 3 phase power?
I have a Scheppach Portable! (not so portable) 2010 table saw, (see image for ref) It's too heavy for site work but ok for workshop projects. The one major bug bind I have over pressed metal is accuracy of cut, compared to cast iron beds. It is possible but can be fiddley.

BodgerM_497​

I am not sure if this sliding beam on the Record TS250RS would work/fit your TS250C saw. Both versions look almost the same.
I did find a video giving some good tips on the TS250C I can agree with the cleaning to ensure an accurate 90 deg cut. Clearly this is an older machine so the guy was happy to make alterations regarding the riving knife. His complaint regarding the design is not valid as it would have been designed to prevent people from removing the knife due to safety. Nice saw though, I am sure you will get good use out of it.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Sorry not sure what you meant RE rippping. Is it to allow plenty of rip fence towards rear of the table to push work well beyond blade/riding knife, whilst still riding against the fence?

Something like as illustrated below is what Cabinetman is describing regarding setting the rip fence. You should be able to see, even though the snaps are poor quality, that the rip fence is set so that the wood being ripped clears the front end of the fence almost as soon as the rip cut is completed: in other words, as soon as the cut is complete it's no longer trapped between the rip fence and the spinning blade which it would be if the fence was set long such as all the way to the far end of the saw. You should also be able to see that a couple of push sticks are used to push the wood for the last 400 mm or so of the cut. Slainte.

 

[Cabinetman]

@Mike Davies (TheWebtuts) yes single phase, Sedgwick, good old British engineering, a bit agricultural maybe but just keeps on going and going. One of the things I really like about using it is the foot operated "off switch" in exactly the right place with no fumbling when both hands are full of push sticks.
Ian