£600 bandsaw

[Jackbequick]

Yes Steve...people who design and sell "junk' to DIY people have apparently no interest in technical reality. They are looking at markets which have money burning a hole in the pocket, or just have to 'buy buy buy'. So long as "it" is "conveniently stored" whether hose, extension lead, gym gear there is a 'mug-market' for it....not that the buyers are mugs (often) but they are impulse buyers with no technical savvy...or alternatively...think they do have the savvy . You can buy then never have to see it again...but proudly tell people you do HAVE such and such and it 'takes up no room at all'. That cable of yours might have been 2 core not 3(?)

 

[Jackbequick]

Jack, your view is valid but you do realise we run on 230V here, a 20A circuits is a lot of power!

The way you can think of it is like a kettle, would you wire 20A round your kitchen as that’s on of the highest power devices in most homes (that and the oven which had its own supply). So 20A for power tools and small machines is really unnecessary, some need a higher power supply so you wire in a new supply for that, most of us hobby workers don’t have that. Though that’s what I was planing on doing till I inspected the machine and found it couldn’t take 16A itself.

I’ve had a hot plug pin once and that was due to the contact on the socket being slightly bent and only contacting on a point not a flat

Aidan

Hi Aidan...the answer is 'yes' and probably 2 x 20 A in kitchen plus range etc. You say you have a 13A outlet (never seen one so speculating) and I am well aware of the voltages used in US, UK, Australia, France and elsewhere.

I'm not sure whether there was a significant point there in your correcting my discussion.. Through my reply I acknowledged the nominal UK voltage as 220V ..including in the 746W calculation. You may want to be specific if you think your supply is constantly regulated to 230V which is most unlikely. You now are looking at 3.2 amperes not 3.5 under the free running 1Hp calculation. In fact your voltage will be 'all over the shop' demanding on time of day, whether workdays or weekends, local industrial demands and your own household use. Auto switching is a part of controlling all that...but I'll leave it there...

UK and Europe 'harmonised' at 230v however there was no change to supply which was previously nominally 220V. The 230V is a figure between 216v and 250v approximately ..which are the permissable limits of line voltage. At -6% and +10% of 230V it is quite a range.

20 Amp circuits.
The laid up cable and breaker/fuse rating of 20A enables several GPO's to be connected to a circuit using 10 amp outlets. It also suits a 15Amp outlet or a 20A outlet. You use from it what currents your appliances take, the idea being not to overheat cable. We tend to use V105.

The reason for 2 x20's suggested in your workshop(or any) is that 20 amperes is a useful circuit to 10 ampere GPO's and it is a commonplace submains size certainly here. France has some rather 'odd' conception in supply but UK has advanced.

As indicated you have no idea what current your gear draws. You may want to plug in a heater as well sometime..or an air-conditioner...or a dust extractor. Be Prepared is my good advice.

I missed the point on the hot pin...I think you are talking about poor contact and local heating there.

Everything I have written is correct and sensibly conjectured.It may however help to increase your circumspection of me as ignorant of how it all works that I am an electrical engineer many years in IEEE, electrical contractor for 55 years without a single defect on any job, well over 3000 of those, manager (retired) of major electrical organisation, specialist site supervisor here and overseas, electrician special class, tech trades teacher and with various other trades as well as a Masters in OHSE Management. I have watched and worked with the best there was in cabinetmaking and French polishing and use vintage hand tools and power tools.

I acknowledge that your view of my 'view' is of course worthy of response so I have responded to not leave your comment 'up in the air' where it could do damage to other thinking. Hopefully I have clarified it all now.

Warm Regards

 

[sunnybob]

There are many documented cable reel fires on 220 volt 13 amp circuits. You'll find safety warnings in all official risk assessments. Part of my last job was overseeing work in high risk LPG bulk storage tank compounds. Following standing orders, it was a constant battle to make workmen unroll ALL of the cable reels before they could use their machines. Only on being told that the alternative was to burger orf and we would get workmen who could obey instructions would they do it.
But, a 1 metre extension lead is not relevant.

 

[TheTiddles]

Nobody is correcting you, that would be an achievement anyway as I can’t see a single error in what you’ve put. Just that 20A at 230v nominal is over 4kW. Houses in the UK don’t generally wire for that consumption at all sockets. I’m sure those of us who have this hobby would be delighted if they did, then we’d never have to add that extra 16A circuit for the inrush on certain machines. So coming back to the original question, if you’re looking at a bandsaw for £600 you might buy one that draws more than a conventional socket, unless you are fortunate enough to have Jack wire your house, in which case you’re a lucky chap, just make sure you use the right socket then.

Aidan

 

[TheTiddles]

There are many documented cable reel fires on 220 volt 13 amp circuits. You'll find safety warnings in all official risk assessments. Part of my last job was overseeing work in high risk LPG bulk storage tank compounds. Following standing orders, it was a constant battle to make workmen unroll ALL of the cable reels before they could use their machines. Only on being told that the alternative was to burger orf and we would get workmen who could obey instructions would they do it.
But, a 1 metre extension lead is not relevant.

Yes, I’m a stickler for that one too, I’ve never seen the problem arise but I do it anyway obviously.

Not sure I made myself clear but I was using a 20m cable to bridge the 1m gap, which was an annoyance. I also had the suitable flex to replace it literally next to the machine for years, I just never clocked that it was suitable, took 20 minutes to re-wire it, now no more unspool, plug, run, unplug, respool every time I need to rip

Aidan

 

[sunnybob]

The UK uses 220 volts and 13 amp sockets on a ring main. 16 amp and 20 amp sockets are wired direct from each socket to the consumer unit with their associated larger wiring.
When I was a lad in the UK we actually got 240 volts. Here in Cyprus, we still nominally have 240, although whenever I check anything I never get more than 238
The UK doesnt have twin 230 volt lines in domestic premises. From 20 amp it then goes to three phase 415 volts. Also, for theoretical purposes, USA use 60 Hz, Europe uses 50Hz.

 

[TheTiddles]

The UK uses 220 volts and 13 amp sockets on a ring main. 16 amp and 20 amp sockets are wired direct from each socket to the consumer unit with their associated larger wiring.
When I was a lad in the UK we actually got 240 volts. Here in Cyprus, we still nominally have 240, although whenever I check anything I never get more than 238
The UK doesnt have twin 230 volt lines in domestic premises. From 20 amp it then goes to three phase 415 volts. Also, for theoretical purposes, USA use 60 Hz, Europe uses 50Hz.

Did you have a particular use for those 2 missing Volts Bob?

Aidan

 

[Ttrees]

Quite aggressive start a 20" bandsaw is using a single phase 2hp motor.
I wouldn't doubt it for a second that it needs the 16amp supply to start.
Much prefer 3 phase stuff with VFD route.
A hundred quid VFD,
24" bandsaw (with dual voltage motor) 500 quid, yes, I had to make a fence
and never a 13 amp fuse blown with my household plug,
The only time the machine blew a fuse is when I was using an extension lead for some time with a 5 amp fuse.
My quids are in euro's, so that would account for your petrol for the car.
Pick up some sheet metal for making a cabinet for the thing, like an old washing machine or appliance, you might find one on the way back,
few buttons from Ebay , nice twistlock in box for about 3 quid, and a fancy as you like with lights on it, for two quid, and your good to go!
That's the best way your going to get a bandsaw for 600 quid.
Only passed a great deal myself not so long ago, the equivalent machine was going for 400.
Do the research on dual voltage motors (myfordman's induction motor PDF)
and go on the likes of ebay or gumtree for a bargain.

Good luck
Tom

 

[sunnybob]

Did you have a particular use for those 2 missing Volts Bob?

Aidan

Yes. I feel cheated, and will most likely send a strongly worded letter to the Times, signed Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.