Router woes: ANYONE ELSE WITH A T10, T11 or DW625 HAD THIS?

[Eric The Viking]

Having just pontificated at poor Hunggaur about his Hitachi's speed controller, I was caught out myself at nine o'clock last night :x .

Table-mounted T11, in use on and off most of the day. I started to hear clicking on run-up and run-down, only one or two to start with. Then it started clicking a lot, then the speed became erratic.

I didn't notice the speed issue at first, as I was using a 1/4" straight cutter, so running almost flat out. As an experiment I tried to slow it down to its lowest setting - it didn't change much, if at all. Thinking something had got caught inside, I took it out of the table, still mounted in the plate and put it back upside down to test it. No clicking and better (but still not right), speed control. Hmm. Not good.

So I took the top (bottom) cover off. Here's what I found:

That little black ring in my hand(!), is the magnet part of the speed sensor mechanism. It should be on the shaft.

It counts a train of magnetic pulses for speed control, like many modern car tachos. The disc has obviously been sliding slowly off the shaft for some while. The bottom cover stopped it from coming off completely (hence the scuff marks), but it moved almost out of range of the magnetic sensor inside the cover. That meant erratic (or no) pulses from the sensor, and the system thinking it wasn't going fast enough, resulting in only two speeds: flat-out, or off.

The shaft is slightly splined, and it looks like the ring just an interference fit on it. This is pretty poor* if the ring is plastic and the router is intended for table ("upside down") use. Gravity always wins in the end.

There is some friction still. If I push the ring back into roughly the right place, it seems to work, but I have no real idea how far down the shaft it ought to be (can't see because the board is potted!). I think it goes right down to the bearing's circlip, but I can't tell for certain. I'm going to try Locktite thread-locking compound later this morning, as a stop gap. Although glueing it in place with superglue or Araldite might work, the magnet disc is scuffed and worn and ought to be replaced. I needed to bodge it this morning, to finish the job I'm working on, without making a proper repair any harder, so I've used Loctite:

So if anyone has had this same fault with a Trend T10 or T11 or DeWalt 625, please can you tell me how it was sorted out? In particular, how far down the shaft should the magnet ring be, and, if yours was replaced, how is it now fixed on? A sensible manufacturing approach would have either been a grub screw opposite the magnet, or a circlip, but both mean extra cost at the factory...

Notwithstanding, it's a trade/industrially-rated machine, and THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE OCCURRED! In my case, it has had only light amateur use, and never cut a kitchen worktop in its life. It's clean as a whistle inside and hasn't been thrown around or abused with unfair loads or cutting speeds.

Did I mention I'm rather cross about this?

E.

*I was way more rude at 2130h last night, when I'd diagnosed it. "C**p engineering" sprang immediately to mind, followed rapidly by "Bl**dy Italian electrics!" (I once had an Italian motorbike). There may have been some Anglo Saxon emitted, too. I've cooled down, slightly, this morning.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Bummer
I have* a 625 in my RT, it's been in there for years and I've never had a problem. I do think, however, that this style of router is not very well suited for RT work. there is a lot of open venting facing upwards, just waiting to be fouled by gravity-sensitive debris, AKA sawdust.
I had a T10, but whilst I thought that Trend had done a good job of redesigning the base for RT work, all the other weaknesses of the design were still manifest.
TBH, for that style of router I wouldn't swap my ancient Elu 177e for any of them.

S
* At least, I had when I last looked, not been near it all for 6 months Oh, I miss my workshop.

 

[9fingers]

I managed to crack a magnet a while back. I glued it back together with real araldite and used the same to stick it to the shaft.

Worked perfectly.

Bob

Steve, I reckon your elu will have just the same arrangement inside for the speed control. My MOF 96 works that way.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Bob
Yes, I'm sure you are right. I just meant for general build quality and precision of assembly, the 177e knocks spots of the T10.
My biggest gripe with the design is the inability to stand the thing upside down on the bench for cutter changing. The cable support prevents it. To you have to do it right on the edge of the bench where it is just asking to be dropped onto the floor. Trend could have, and should have, taken the opportunity to remedy this weakness. Coupled with the fact that the T10 was not central (shaft WRT base) which has serious implications if you use template bushes, I thought generally that it was a missed opportunity. My 177E is dead on central, so it's quite possible.
S

 

[Eric The Viking]

Well the Loctite seems to have done the trick, for the time being. There's plenty of speed adjustment now and it sounds normal. Relieved, I must say.

So... I've just completed Steve M's box joint jig (stage #1 - cutting accurate fingers), with some success. Unlike his, mine needed slight fettling and I think may yet need a sliver of 80g paper to improve the fit slightly (it's a gnat's tight at the moment. Practicing on cupped deal doesn't help, incidentally

Next stage, fitting a 45 degree mitre to the fence, so that I can make box jointed octagons. Should be fun

E.

 

[mailee]

I have noticed this magnet on both my De Walts and the Small trend. I have removed it on the small Elu when I replaced the bearings in it and it was a good tight push fit but I must admit I have never used any of them in a table as I have my Hitachi for that.

 

[brk1]

Bit late on this reply as over 6 mths since last reply, but I have a T11 that worked absolutely fine, then one day it suddenly didn't work,if I push the speed adjuster wheel upwards , it starts to work again, but as you use it , it starts to slow down again, if I switch it off from a working position then switch it on again , it again doesn't work unless I push the wheel up into the speed control board, I believe the magnet is solidly fixed in place, but will have to take it apart again, I wish I could apply a small blob of glue to fix it as a new speed control board is about £90, once I push the speed dial up into place all speeds etc work fine, once the router starts up it must vibrate something inside the speed control board and I'm back to square one everytime :evil: :evil:

 

[Eric The Viking]

They don't seat very well. Also, one of the screws for the end cap also does the dust extraction pipe collar. If you've only one screw in the end, that won't help. The pot is a bit cheap+nasty though. I re-seated the speed controller on mine recently as I had it out of the table. The pot got easier to turn and it seemed to fit back together more easily than before.

Possibly worth a try,

Incidentally, I know the circuit board has a cover, but I don't think the controller board is potted in resin. If it isn't, it may be an easy repair, as the components are cheap. The pot may be a 'special' although you might find one for another machine will fit. Even if it's slightly the wrong value that will only change the settings, not the overall behaviour (they usually only use two out of three connections). Makita, for example, have a lot of tools with edge-wheel speed controls.

E>

 

[brk1]

I think I'll have a look inside before I part with the £90 , what's the worst I can do, break it , it don't work properly now so a dismantle and clean can't hurt it, like you say a different pot might solve the problems, sure I can find one similar at a fraction of the £90 a complete board will cost me, little dribble with a soldering iron if needed, I'm lucky enough to have 2 more routers, small T4 for general bits and pieces and a faithfull old Bosch GoF 1300 that has never let me down apart from a new collet a while back, so I've got time to experiment with it if need be

 

[terrymck]

I had exactly the same problem with my table mounted T11. One or two clicks on switch on. I only noticed the speed controller was not working when I used a large diameter groover. I opened the top cover to find that circular magnet loose from the splined shaft. A little CA glue and some activator cured it. I pushed it back on the shaft with the glue and everything is working again.

 

[brk1]

My magnet wasn't the problem in the end, it was the speed board, upon taking out the speed board there was no way of touching the pot, secured around that area by a massibe blob of resin, finally manged to get one for just over £70 (ouch) but thats better than when I first found them, but I'm fully up and running again, the old one finally became unuseable at all so I had no choice. Very strange wiring config on the circuit board, five wires go to three terminals, even a red and black wire going to the same terminal all be it a double back to back spade fitting going onto the one terminal, when the new board arrived I was sure it was wrong , three terminals and five wires to connect to them but Trend confirmed this was right before I ripped it apart, took at least 10 minutes to do, all good to go again

 

[Eric The Viking]

Really glad you sorted it.

Don't chuck the old speed controller board though. It most probably is only just loose solder joints to the speed pot (or to another component). Like all other consumer kit now, it'll be lead free solder, and that is about the worst place imaginable to use the stuff: temperature fluctuations, extreme vibration, etc.

You can rework fairly successfully with a beefy soldering iron (>30W), a vacuum solder-sucker (the hand pump sort), and some leaded solder. Add the leaded solder first - lowers the melting point and lets you get the lead-free stuff off, then re-solder with leaded. It withstands vibration far better.

It's only a guess, but certainly worth a look. Then you have a spare.

It's not impossible, but I doubt it's the actual pot itself. The resin/goo is an indication they're probably finding vibration damage, identified at the factory in returned units. They could want to prevent component-level repair, but it's unlikely.

E.

 

[mailee]

Just a thought on this but what about a piece of heat shrink tubing on the end of the shaft to stop the magnet moving? Might be worth a shot for future reference. :wink:

 

[MMUK]

Notwithstanding, it's a trade/industrially-rated machine, and THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE OCCURRED! In my case, it has had only light amateur use, and never cut a kitchen worktop in its life. It's clean as a whistle inside and hasn't been thrown around or abused with unfair loads or cutting speeds.

I do see your point, but plunge routers weren't designed to be used upside-down in a table. I'd say that if you were using it upright, this would never have occured

 

[Eric The Viking]

Actually this one (T11) is sold SPECIFICALLY for use in a router table.

And two years on, it works fine.

E.

 

[Tierney]

I have similar symptoms on my DW625, has had very little use - maybe 20/30 hours, but in an RT. Oh well this thread will help me figure out and maybe remedy.

Pretty poor for a trade rated machine.

Cheers,

DT

 

[SteveF]

i am glad this thread showed up

I have a T4 used about 5 or 6 times since new
it starts when it wants to

it got thrown into a cupboard and forgot about

time to play and see if i can fix it

Steve

 

[swalker2]

I have the same fault, I have saw this site after dropping if off at an approved Trend Repairer, I thought it was a power cord issue but it seems speed Control Unit has an issue. Like other posts in this chain I haven't used it that much.

After being told £140 to repair it I collected it today in the same state.

I will take a look tonight to see if I can manage this fault rather than throw a sizeable chunk of cash at it.

If somebody could provide the part number for the speed control board/unit for a T11e (2005 Model) I would be grateful. £70 is vastly better than £140.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Look at the pics I originally posted. It'll cost you a tube of Loctite (NB: the thread lock, NOT the superglue of the same brand (stupid people - another name wouldn't habve killed them!).

It's pretty unlikely to be the controller board UNLESS the rotating magnet is in the right place and shows no signs of being loose or having moved on the shaft.

 

[swalker2]

So it looks like my speed control is the issue. The wheel looks to be in place, I have cleaned it up but still the same, also moved it a touch and its pretty stiff, no joy.

I assume the trend and dewalt are ultimately the same. if so part - PCB DW625E-6-103-868142-03 should suffice, the part number on mine is the same.