Robert Sorby ProEdge Adventure

[wizer]

Rather than a review, I thought I'd post some of my thoughts as and when I use it. Hopefully this will be more useful than "This is a great tool, I love it".

So we started with a delivery.

As you can see I went feet first and got the whole lot. The Deluxe kit and then every single available accessory. I did it like this because I know I'd end up wanting it all and it was cheaper to buy it like this. Here is the full list of what I bought:

Obviously it's mainly for my turning tools. But I do flatworld stuff as well, so it will be useful for plan irons and chisels. I'm even looking into having some custom belts made up in higher grits for woodworking tools. I also have a small selection of carving tools that I've never had success sharpening.

The ProEdge does not have the selection of jigs that the Tormek has. Which is fine, but I think Sorby are missing a trick. It would be great to have a planer knife jig, scissors, kitchen knives, etc. Maybe they are planning this for the future.

So over the past few days I have been re-shaping all my tools so that they fit in with the presets on the ProEdge. You do not have to stick to their presets, the tool rest and fingernail profiler is fully adjustable.

The fingernail profiler is exactly the same as the Sorby Deluxe grinder jig I had before and I believe Tormek is the same too (invented by Tormek?).

On the other thread I mentioned a problem with the handles hitting the motor body. This is actually not what the problem was. What was happening was the actual body of the profiler was hitting the bed. You can see from this pic that there is a corner sanded off the jig.

oops. The confusion came in from the fact that the grind on my tools was\is much longer than the sorby jig allows. You might be able to get a better idea from this pic

I'm not sure if this is a restriction of the machine or something I am missing. You can see here that I have coloured the old bevel with a black marker.

The new grind off the ProEdge stops short of it on the larger tools. You also get more swing on the right side as the profiler body can pass over the side of the bed. The profile seems a bit 'pointy' to me. I need to look up the various recommended angles and profiles. I've read about it before but it's not sunk in.

I'm going to contact Sorby about this and see if it's just me doing something wrong. Would love to hear from owners if they have had this problem, just me?

I finished the gouges by just relieving the corner of each bevel to increase clearance.

Then on to the skews. This was striaght forward, but as I'd ground my skets with a convext bevel, it took a great deal of work to get them sorted. The benefit is that I can hone the edge right up to 240g and then a quick swipe on the ceramic stone. I used one of the skews on a pen I made today and the finish is easily equal to 400g
8) Here's the last skew about half way through re-shaping:

I have not been quenching them. Rich's comments in the other thread caused me to be wary of that. I'm not sure the best way to do it. At the moment I'm just leaving them to air cool. Is it right that a little 'blueing' on HSS is ok? Or is that Carbon Steel? :-k

Finished up today with a clear up and a sort out. All the jigs are stuck to the side of a cabinet next to the proedge with magnets. The belts are hun underneath the shelf that it's sitting on. This is all temporary. Once I've worked out how it all works and what I need where, I'll build a purpose built shelf with a drawer.

That's it for now. More thoughts and findings as they come.

 

[Blister]

:shock: That looks good Tom

I may get one myself :lol:

O hold on I have one already :tool: :tool: :tool: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[cornucopia]

good review Tom- your fingernail profile is very severe to the (more pointy rather than a gentle rounded over transition) nose and will make for a very aggressive gouge- I think if it was me I’d have one grind like that and another more gentle grind and see which you prefer, I certainly know which I would prefer.

you are correct not to quench hss as it makes it brittle-a little blue won’t hurt them as long as its allowed to cool naturally.

 

[Harlequin]

I have the universal sharpening jig for a grinder and had the same issues with grinding long profiles.
On the grinder jig however I found that the chunky bar into which the profiler slots in can be moved from side to side by about an inch or so .
I move it extreme left while sharpening the left side profile and blend in towards the tip and vice-versa for the right.
Nt sure if a similar thing is possible on the proedge - my 2p

 

[gasmansteve]

Excellent and interesting review Tom. I found on my universal jig (447?) that the more or less the chisel protrudes from the jig can greatly affect the length of the side grind. I`m trying to strike a balance with the profile I want with the side grind I want meanwhile eating away at the chisel end :wink: . The universal jig set up allows a bit of side to side movement but the Pro edge pivot looks fixed maybe for more consistent grinds?.

Steve

 

[wizer]

Morning guys, thanks for chipping in.

Yes the profiles do look pointy to me too. I'm wondering if all I need to do is work more on the middle section of the swing? I tend to shy away from the middle but because it seems to heat up quicker. But if it's ok to blue a bit then I might experiment with it some more. The jig is exactly the same as the 447. It does slide about 40mm left to right. You have the adjustment on the profiler itself, plus the amount of projection to work with. All I did was match what I had already in terms of bevel. But the profile is a bit of a head scratcher.

The manual is well written with clear instructions. But it's very basic and doesn't go into the finer details of how to get the various grinds.

I'll have another play with it later.

 

[johnny.t.]

Nice review wizer 8) Looks like a good bit of kit. Do the tools feel sharper done by a belt?

I think I would round off the tips of those gouges :lol:

JT

 

[boysie39]

Tom great WIP on proedge itis consistant. Clive Brooks from Sorby I'm sure thats his name, he demo's the proedge and from listening to him he seems to have a big imput int the development of the ProEdgeHe can be contacted through the Sorby Website. Hope this is of some help to you REgards Boysie

 

[wizer]

Thanks Boysie. I'm in contact with someone else at Sorby. I sent him an email this morning explaining that my initial concern might be my own error. But I'm still not sure if it's right.

JT. I sharpened the skew down to 240g and yes, it felt sharper than I'd ever got it. I haven't used the gouges yet. Will do later, hopefully.

 

[BMac]

Hi Tom,

Super review. I had the same issue with the sides of the profiling jig being ground off so I extended the end sticking out of the clamp (very technical there) and decreased the angle between the leg and the head to reduce the length of the grind. So far it's OK and I move the jig along the bar like Harlequin does.

Please post Sorby's response because this issue is still bugging me on an otherwise excellent machine.

Brendan.

 

[spasm]

Nice post Wizer,

very interesting in finding out how sharp the skews are getting, my test is to shave the hair off my arms if i get a clean shave then its sharp, are you getting them that sharp, not that I want you to try shaveing your arm with one. The finger nail does look on the pointy side but couldn't you alter the jig to sort that out?

keep up the good work keeping us informed.

thanks Rob

 

[wizer]

Well I had a play with it again today after doing some reading up on Fingernail Profiles. I found thispage which helped me see that what I've been using is not a standard profile.

The reply I got from Sorby was a little blunt:

Hello Tom,
Glad to see that you have managed to find the answer. Your grinds are a lot more swept back than ours which explains why I couldn't duplicate things, but grinding clearance on the jig is not a problem.

Best Regards
Paul

I then replied, asking exactly how I obtain a more rounded profile. and got this response:

Regarding the tip of your fingernail tools. I suggest you set your table at 45 degrees fit your 60 zirconium belt. Turn your tool upside down and put the flute on the table. Then present it to the belt and remove metal. Keep doing this until you can see the shape you wish begin to appear. This shows where you have to remove metal from. In your case from the tip. This will give you a basis to start reforming your tool.

Today in the workshop I wanted to get on with some turning. I tried the 1/2" bowl gouge as I'd shaped in originally and it wasn't working very well. I just couldn't seem to get it to cut. So I took it back to the 60g ceramic belt, kept the settings at they were but just concentrated on the tip more than the sides. The grind now looks rather ugly (pics to follow), but it cut the bubinga much better.

Spasm, the skew does indeed shave better than my Gillette Mach3

I asked Sorby about possible future additions to the jigs range for things like kitchen knives, planer blades, etc The man from Sorby, he say NO So sometime in the future I'll see if I can jig something up.

 

[BMac]

"..but grinding clearance on the jig is not a problem."

I am a bit disappointed with this because, if some of us are having an issue with clearance, it is a problem.

Right now, having just read Sorby's remark I feel like I have just been asked "Why did you buy a machine you can't use?" Well, the answer to that is "because Mr. Sorby told me it was the answer to all my sharpening problems".

Not good enough Sorby.

Brendan.

 

[wizer]

I must admit I was a little miffed with that. He seemed to just brush over it, as if it wasn't really a problem. But then saying that, I don't know if the wings on my gouges were swept back too far? They where ground using the Robert Sorby 447 jig, which is basically the same, so I'm even further confused.

At this moment I'm not going to dwell on it. It appears that the jig is capable of grinding fingernail profiles. Of course, if I want a specialist angle that the profiler can not achieve, then I can do it freehand on the belt.

I do wish Sorby would be a bit better with their marketing information. There's very little out there to go on. It seems that the ProEdge is doing well purely out of work of mouth. They do have a short video, which is poorly produced and really doesn't go into enough detail. Especially when you compare it to what's available for the Tormek.

 

[Bodrighy]

I bet if one of the well known turners started using a swept back grind like yours they'd soon do something about it with some advertising how wonderful the 'new ****** style grind can be achieved with the wonderful jig that can be fitted for only £**** :lol:

Pete

 

[cornucopia]

I'm no expert Tom- and i've never used a pro edge but i think the profile your getting with the pointy nose will be partly to do with the projection of the gouge from the jig and the distance if the jig pivot point from the wheel/belt
I dont know the distance on my tormek from the wheel to the pivot point but my main 5/8" gouge (the one you and Richard used-and i use for the majority of my work) projects 2.5" from the jig.

 

[wizer]

Thanks for that George. I achieved that yesterday by concentrating more on the tip than the sides. Today I will try lengthening the projection.

The profiler body is exactly the same as the Tormek. I'm not sure who invented it, Tormek I think.

 

[wizer]

I forgot to update his. The guy I was talking to at Sorby came back to me again. He quoted the following response from the production director of the ProEdge.

"I am working on a new product that will enable a much longer grind, it's in the early stages but I can't see it taking us long before its available. I should have something for you to look at when we get back. Still not sure how many out there need the extreamly long grind and how many we would sell.
We are also working on other jigs (not just woodworking) but we need to keep them under our hat for now, and much finer belts right down to a fine polish."

 

[gasmansteve]

Hope thats just an extra jig for the Pro edge and not a whole new grinder set up :?:
Steve

 

[wizer]

No he's talking about new jigs for the ProEdge. I'm guessing it's just a scaled down profiler jig? Not sure what else you'd need to do to get longer grinds?

When he talks about 'other jigs' I'm assuming things like scissors, kitchen knives, etc