'Moxon' add-on vices

[condeesteso]

I haven't seen the review but it may be worth noting the thread depth. The smallest 1/2" has a nut bored before tapping of 3/8ths. the biggest 1 1/2" is bored 1 3/8ths, so relative thread depth reduces as you go up in size. I find this odd, but on the v1 the 'nut' depth is effectively about 60mm. Whatever breaks I cannot see it being the threads.
The main reason I bought this one was for the taps really. I feel 'not fit for purpose' would have been extremely harsh, at £40. But as I say not seen the review.

(and Andy. Your wife has a Workmate? =D> . Mine has a KitchenAid. )

 

[condeesteso]

update 2

v2 well under way. Bigger bosses, with the reduced dia that they fit over

The bosses were turned from some scrap - an old table leg or two. Does anyone know what this is - quite light, reasonably close grain, no significant knots... old hemlock maybe??

Happy with the thread form though it is not deep. Really soaking the stock first seems to result in a really clean cut

I think I will be pegging the 2 handle / bosses this time, but maybe clean the peg flush as the boss itself is likely to offer enough torque. And a leather face on one vice face.
Pic of finished v2 later (not tonight, later later).

 

[marcros]

i would have guessed at hemlock maybe. Looking good.

 

[jimi43]

I know you know what I'm going to say but I'm going to say it anyway....that pattern in the thread is amazing! :shock:

I have been using the V1 tonight....pretty impressive Douglas...the grip with virtually no turning is astounding...the flexibility of the leverage using one side is really handy and super quick...this will definitely be of benefit when working on round and odd shaped stock.

One thing that I noticed straight away...quite by accident..if you put a very uneven faced piece in which I did without thinking...bias can be added so that grip is maintained at both ends and in between which you won't get with a fixed vise.

Very versatile!

More review with pictures when I get a chance...(read..finished playing!)

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

Aha - the grain on the thread, yes. Clean threads though for a budget cutter set I reckoned. The linseed soak - amazing how much goes in (50/50 with turpentine, though I may well go to white spirit, there's a recession on). One way is 50mm plumbing pipe and a closure end, welded with the solvent weld - stick the blank and about a cupful of 50/50 in there and watch it disappear overnight...
Yes the controlled racking is one feature of the twin-screw and Workmates of course. It's a trade-off - too much and the whole vice is too sloppy, but just enough is useful.

 

[jimi43]

I've been playing with V1 today and finally dragged myself away from it for long enough to review it somewhat.

First of all I would like to review the build. I know that Douglas has built this as a prototype which is under continuous review and refinement in V2 and beyond....but honestly...the build quality of V1 would satisfy all but the most critical of users.

The handmade screws...given the method of manufacture are remarkably clean...

Screw pitch is a trade off between speed of adjustment and finness. The pitch is perhaps a little fine if you want to continuously go from closed to fully open...but honestly..why would you?

The tap produces a thread of the same quality....

I would love to see what this could do with boxwood!

Douglas has voiced his concern about the bosses....

...potentially pulling out...but I would seriously doubt this. V2 has however been changed to take account of improvements in this area though...

The quality of finish...considering this is from "scrap"...(yes really!)...is fine...and the attention to detail typical of what we have come to expect from this craftsman! 8) It is perhaps a little over the top that the boss wedges both point upwards when the jaws are precisely parallel. Douglas thought I might notice if he didn't do this...nah! Would I? :mrgreen: :wink:

The jaws have a huge capacity at full stretch....

...and we can also see the bias on the jaws...which is really useful...as is the precisely placed and cut "V" groove....

...particularly useful for me...as it allows the secure but delicate clamping of round and irregular stock...like handles.

The Tru-Oil finish adds a beautiful touch (yes I'm biased!)....to the finish...protecting the wood with a super hard-wearing but tactile layer.

The vise fits beautifully in my No.52 1/2 and is rock solid...at even full height!

I started out with a very thin piece of irregular English oak offcut....with the intention of precision planing it to a perfect square profile...and using my prototype plane...I was able to hold it at the right height and use my knuckles as guides along the top of the vise jaws...maintaining a perfectly flat...regular finish!

The deliberate racking of the individual screws allowed me to firmly lock the piece of stock...even though it started out with quite a taper. You don't realise how handy this is until you try to do it in the standard screw vise and the thin end slips down...however hard you tighten it. With the Moxon clone...it's firm at both ends...and all points in between.

I even went as far as planing down a 12 degree wedge...side on with no movement whatever! Try doing that in a stock vise!

I was going to make a wall mount to hold this vise when not in use...but I have a feeling that could remain quite empty for most of the time! This is going to stay right where it is for now!

Nice one Douglas...a great take on an old concept...right up my street! =D>

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

Thanks for an excellent review Jim. V2 is almost finished now, with slightly bigger diameter bosses, a very slight taper on the front face so it closes at the top edge first (just, 1/2mm maybe) and leather to the face side which does improve grip considerably whilst needing less pressure. It's all too tight at the moment so needs some fettling, but it should free up with use anyway.
Will be making one more soon most likely in ash, maybe a bit of oak thrown in. I'll be interested to see how Jim's behaves after a few months use though.

 

[jimi43]

Just a quick update on V1....which by the way is used by me every day!

Douglas and I both found ourselves turning the boss AND the thread to get grip to tighten perfectly.

To overcome the need for this and to add extra strength to the boss/threaded rod joint...I turned up some little pegs today.

Ok....yup...lignum vitae...strong as ****...I have more offcuts than boxwood which would have been my first choice

These may be small but they fit the thumb perfectly and the extra grip allows this superb vise to work more effectively.

And...LV is pretty!

Oh...and Douglas...I lined up the pegs with the wedges! I know you will be impressed with that detail! :wink:

Jim

 

[James C]

I want to make one of these now. I've seen that benchcrafted make hardware for moxon vices, has anyone used one?


The only benefit that I can see is that they have a smoother action and open and close quickly.

What is the action like on the wooden screws do they take long to fully open/close?

 

[jimi43]

I want to make one of these now. I've seen that benchcrafted make hardware for moxon vices, has anyone used one?


The only benefit that I can see is that they have a smoother action and open and close quickly.

What is the action like on the wooden screws do they take long to fully open/close?

The biggest benefit is that the vise has a wide height adjustment...which means that you can bring the stock up to the level you need for each particular job. Dovetails for instance are far easier and a higher working position.

Another benefit of the one that Douglas has made is that the V can be used to grip round objects such as handles.

I made two handles today for a draw knife I've had for a while awaiting a pair. I started the tang hole on the lathe but wanted to finish the depth manually so I simply put the handles in the V slot and then opened the other side to give super grip. It really is fast and convenient. This thing is worth having in the shop! I made some space under the bench for it...but frankly it hasn't been out of the Record 52 1/2 since I put it there.... :mrgreen:

The vise is also great for end cuts...the grip is astounding and the vise can be raised up so that the saw is not fouled by the bench top.

The speed of opening/closing to full extent is slow but I hardly ever need to whiz where that is concerned. A coarser thread will speed things up.

I'm sure Douglas will be happy to advise you on construction tips.

Jim

 

[bugbear]

I hadn't realised until now that this vise is a 90-degree-turned-variant of my vise-on-a-stick

http://web.archive.org/web/200901140249 ... vise_stick

BugBear

 

[condeesteso]

Hi James - just had a look again at the Benchcrafted Moxon - they make very nice hardware indeed and I once almost got their wagon / tail vice but chose Richard Maguire's which is brilliant and rather less expensive.
I was surprised to note the Benchcrafted is 8tpi, though the wheels will spin fast and smooth no doubt. It looks like the kit would be about £150 landed and cleared UK, and whilst I like these vices, I don't like them that much :wink:
The Axi thread cutter I use is 6tpi and it works very well provided you take care. Soak the screw stock in thinned linseed until it is thoroughly penetrated, and similarly get the female well oiled before tapping (and you thought this was a woodworking forum).
If I could cut the threads say 4tpi I certainly would but there is no option around to do that, and lathe turning the female must be quite tricky (not impossible if you have a thread-cutting lathe).
An alternative could be a pair of York style screws - Axi have various sizes from about £20 to £35, but you need a pair of course. And a metal-screw version will be fairly heavy.

I am about to make v4 for someone and from my own experience I may scale this one down a little.
The first 3 have been around 10" between centres (so clear about 8 1/2") with faces almost 20". I offset the screws so one end of faces extends further from the screw. Clamping outside of the screw (either end) is very handy and also powerful by backing the further screw, quite like the way we use Workmates as BB pointed out.
The key point for me has been scale - mine opens to about 8" (ridiculous) but it is used in the range near closed to max about 1 1/2". These things are great with smaller workpieces. So I may make the screws a bit shorter to give say 3" cap. This makes the thing easier to store I think.
Apart from that the pics explain everything I think.
If you did go for the Benchcrafted I'd be keen to hear more - very fine engineering indeed, just too pricey in the UK I feel... but they were close to appointing a UK distributor some time ago. Mike H at CHT may know something about that.
Keep us posted anyway.

p.s. ah yes Jim - excellent mod and beautifully executed. I expect no less :wink:

 

[James C]

get the female well oiled before tapping (and you thought this was a woodworking forum).

Excellent!

Ok I will continue to have a think about it. My ambitious project list contains a few things and I think priorities need to be made.

It is however difficult as I want to build a decent tool box with dovetailed carcass sides and skirts first, BUT a Moxon vice would sure make that easier as would the bench that I haven't built/can afford to build yet.

 

[AndyT]

Those reading closely will have noticed Douglas's references to Mk1, Mk2 and Mk4.
I am really chuffed to be able to say that I have Mk3 and it's wonderful!

It's a big solid thing:

so when clamped in the vice, it is rock solid at any height - which is great news for my back, which protests if I lean over too much at the wrong height or angle.

The build quality is gorgeous:

but it's also beautifully functional. Douglas and Jim have refined the design, as documented earlier in the thread, despite interruptions from some old codger wittering on about Workmates. The brown oak pegs in the handles give just enough to get hold of without getting in the way:

Here's a posed shot of how it might look if I was doing some dovetailing:

and here are some lap dovetails already completed!

One benefit of the precision with which it has been built is that I can use the top of a jaw to register the chisel against:

It is, as designed, excellent for holding round things:

All in all, it's a triumph of design and making. and will be really useful.
I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get some photos up here - but stand by to see it cropping up in some proper action shots from now on.

So big thanks again to Douglas for being so very generous with his time and expertise.

=D> =D> =D>

Every home should have one!

 

[condeesteso]

Delighted you are happy with it Andy... I trust the r/h thread will ease a little with use? It's hard and a bit hit-and-miss getting the 2 threads equal clearance, and I tend to prefer a tads tight at first, as it will ease up I expect.
The brown oak buttons should align when the face is parallel to the back...?
I notice in the lapped dovetail shot there is a point I may explore on v4. The top of the main vice prevents the workpiece from being lowered into the Moxon any lower than main bench top.
On the next one I may make the legs flush with back face to create some clearance in the main vice... if you see what I mean. Obviously the Record's screw and guides will come in the way but it would give a further say 4" of drop for the workpiece, or way more if it is mounted to the right of r/h screw.
I'm meandering now, sorry.
Very pleased you like it, it was a pleasure making it for one of the most respected (and pleasant) forum members.

 

[James C]

I guess that's why I have seen some moxon vices with no legs, designed to be clamped on the edge of a bench in between dogs or held down with F-cramps or holdfasts. I think I might move that way as it means no hardware gets in the way of a long carcass piece for example.

I don't like the handles on this but you can see the holdfasts in action and the space you get beneath.

 

[condeesteso]

yes James, that solves that one. Worth mentioning I think that with the above you have a single fixed jaw height, and one thing I like a lot about the vice mount is to set the height just where you want it. Also generally the workpieces are smallish... a drawer side say. I used mine a lot recently making a box and cutting dovetails in 5mm maple - i think they are great for work like that.
BUT - have both. The whole face / screw assembly and 2 backs, a vice-mount and a bench-top!
(I wonder where those screws came from?)

 

[AndyT]

Well, Douglas, you have immediately spotted what could be a design limitation if you want to work on the ends of long pieces. But thanks to James' comment, I have the solution!

It's perfectly practical to turn this vice round the other way and clamp it to the edge of the bench. This rapidly-posed photo shows how this can work:

I've used a Richard T Mk2 Holdfast (Thanks again Richard! =D> ) at one end and an F-cramp at the other where I don't have a suitable hole.
The legs don't get in the way. The knobs with their little pegs don't foul the bench top. You can reach round and turn them, or frankly just turn the threaded parts. And the only limit on the length is the height above the floor, as demonstrated by this old salvaged drawer back. (Where else would you go for straight, seasoned, 3/8" thick oak?)

And Richard, I tackled the slightly stiff r/h thread by carefully following along the thread with a coarse triangular needle file. I was left with a little pile of dust - the difference between stiff and easy is tiny - but they are now a perfectly matched pair, with pegs that line up when closed tight, with everything just so.

 

[jimi43]

Sometimes the smartest solutions are the simplest Andy!! =D>

I see a bright future over the next month with mine...I have to make something to store all these old woodies!!

Jim

 

[James C]

Nice work there, maybe one can have it all!