(Yet!) another Wadkin 10AGS restoration thread

[Fitzroy]

One of the problems with the old style fence is that they can crab as you slide them so they arent perfectly parallel with the saw blade.
I fitted a 2 piece sliding false fence out of turfnol o mine so I could adjust the point where the effective fence ended to stop the risk of material jamming during ripping

The fence took me a while to get well adjusted, so that it would glide well unlocked and also lock firmly. Once sorted I know if I bring mine in from right to left it will lock fractionally off square from the blade, giving slight relief behind the blade.

Fitz.

 

[AndrewS]

@julianf Do they both ride on the same size bar? I've seen quotes online of 31mm online for the old fence rail, mine looks more like 40mm but i never trust tape measures. I have the extra long bars and no room right now so want to get a short one and need to know if any will work

Some may cry “heresy!”, but have you considered simply cutting down the rails you have?

 

[julianf]

@julianf Do they both ride on the same size bar? I've seen quotes online of 31mm online for the old fence rail, mine looks more like 40mm but i never trust tape measures. I have the extra long bars and no room right now so want to get a short one and need to know if any will work

The single bar, later fence, has a thicker rail.

If required I can give accurate measurement but not for a few days.

 

[KingAether]

Some may cry “heresy!”, but have you considered simply cutting down the rails you have?

I had considered cutting them down and them tapping both halfs so i could join them with a threaded bar again if i want more space but places online charge as much for the extended bars as i paid for the saw so im not i could bring myself to do it. I could them sell the extended ones to buy or trade for the shorter one but i will have more space in the future and would like the bars kept aside.

The single bar, later fence, has a thicker rail.

If required I can give accurate measurement but not for a few days.

Yes please, ill let you know if i get the measurement elsewhere in the meantime but otherwise if you could that would be great. For now i have some 200 year old oak taken out of a property. I'm going to turn that down to size and make a little jig to cut the rack underneath with a Dremel just to get me through the next few weeks

 

[AndrewS]

A little more progress today.
Hand wheels both cleaned up, paint work lightly rubbed down in preparation for T-cut and motor removed.
Curiously, the fan is slightly warped and is contacting the cowl. It looks like it’s seen some heat at some point and is discoloured. I was hoping that might account for the faint rumble but the bearings are definitely grumbling. I’ll take the opportunity to fit -2RS sealed bearings too, a tad more drag but should be less susceptible to dust in future.

 

[AndrewS]

Motor removed today in preparation for bearing replacement.
Considering the terminal box has a gasket and the capacitor housing has a close-fitting lid, this was impressive!

 

[AndrewS]

A couple of minor setbacks today:

The motor drive end bearing is fine but the non-drive end bearing is rough. Both will be replaced with -2RS sealed variants but the outer race of the non-drive end bearing is too slack in the bearing housing, it’s rotating... I’m going to try Loctite first, if there’s any evidence of slipping after that, boring and sleeving is the only option to preserve the original motor.

The second “discovery” is the rear riving knife carrier bolt. I found it finger tight but it was binding when I tried to back it out by hand. Having whipped it out this evening, I can see why... No idea what’s happened to it, but I think the technical term is Rubber Ducked...

Fearing the worst, I set about the female thread. Having dug out the solid plug of dust, metallic filings and gunge lodged in the blind hole, I ran a tap down it several times and thankfully it’s fine.

* Does anyone happen to have a bolt they would be willing to sell? *

I can recover this one by drilling out the head and welding it to a new plain shank bolt of the right length but I would be happier with a one-piece bolt if there is one out there...

Cheers,
Andy

 

[AndrewS]

A little more progress today. New Dunlop Z22 belts have arrived and I opened up the contactor. Some pretty shoddy electrical practices unearthed (no pun intended!), no gland on the power supply cable, frayed ends aplenty and corrosion on a couple of the cores.
I’m making up a new supply cable with 16a plug; probably unnecessary but I’m tinning the ends and will fit crimp connectors to the earths. Which reminds me, the earthing was distinctly average too, I’ll sort that out while I’m at it.

What’s the consensus on the armoured cable to the motor? The armour has split at both ends of the cable but is otherwise ok. Worth replacing with SY or SWA, or re-use?

 

[Vann]

...What’s the consensus on the armoured cable to the motor? The armour has split at both ends of the cable but is otherwise ok. Worth replacing with SY or SWA, or re-use?

When you say "armoured cable" do you mean steel flexible conduit?

I would suggest that SWA is overkill.

My Wadkins are much older than your AGS (oldest 1925, newest 1951) so I tend to try to keep steel conduit (solid or flexible) where I can, especially where visible - so that it looks period correct for the machine. All modern wires within any conduit of course.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndrewS]

When you say "armoured cable" do you mean steel flexible conduit?

I would suggest that SWA is overkill.

My Wadkins are much older than your AGS (oldest 1925, newest 1951) so I tend to try to keep steel conduit (solid or flexible) where I can, especially where visible - so that it looks period correct for the machine. All modern wires within any conduit of course.

Cheers, Vann.

Thanks Vann.
I’ve ordered a metre of SY cable and will see what that plus glands look like when offered up to the contactor and motor terminal box. If they fit and don’t look too bad, I’m hopeful the rubber shrouds will keep out much of the dust.
Agree, in hindsight SWA would be too inflexible and OTT.

Sounds like you’ve got an interesting collection!

Cheers,
Andy

 

[Vann]

...Sounds like you’ve got an interesting collection!...

Thanks. They'd be more interesting if less were in pieces... .

Wadkin LP boring & recessing machine (1925);
Wadkin RB 9" surface planer x2 (1926 & ~1947);
Preston (Canada) 30" bandsaw (~1928);
Wadkin CK radial arm saw (1936);
Wadkin PK dimension saw (1945);
Wadkin RT 6" woodlathe (1951).

Only the last four are running (and the PK needs work).

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Vann]

...I tend to try to keep steel conduit (solid or flexible) where I can, especially where visible - so that it looks period correct for the machine. All modern wires within any conduit of course...

Here's the 1928 Preston bandsaw showing the conduit it came with (August 2017):

It had been moved from it's original location in 1987 (from a closed pattern shop to the maintenance shop at the same plant). The orange plastic conduit had been added then.

And the steel conduit being fitted (September, 2017).

The switchgear - Crabtree DOL starter (top), & MEM isolator (lower) - were fitted in 1963 (and de-rusted and all contacts cleaned in 2017). I was tempted to fit older switchgear, but felt these were appropriate for this machine as they have now been attached for 58 years (vrs 34 years for the original switchgear - whatever that was).

Sorry - not intending to hijack your thread.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndrewS]

Well, after a diversion to progress the refurbishment of my workshop and waiting for a couple of parts to arrive, I set about reinstalling the overhauled motor this evening.

I’ve opted to re-use the original armoured cable from the contactor to the motor, in part because the motor terminal box would require modification to accept an SY cable gland and the reward doesn’t justify the risk. Plus, to Vann’s point, there’s something to be said for preserving originality. So, I trimmed the cores back to clean copper, tinned them and crimped/soldered rings on where it made sense to do so. So far, so good.

Motor and mounting bracket went back in without a hitch, as did the spindle assy. It was only as I was preparing to fit new belts that I noticed significant spindle pulley runout. I removed the nut to reveal damaged thread (aargh!!), then discovered the pulley has a taper bore from 16.0-17.2mm versus a shaft diameter of 15.7(ish)mm.

I’m no pulley expert, but it looks like Stevie Wonder’s apprentice ordered the wrong bushing..? There is basically nothing to centralise it, apart from the key perhaps.

Suffice to say I now need to replace the pulley and will change it for the correct 3-belt variant whilst I’m at it.

Could anyone point me towards a suitable 63mm dia., 3-belt, z-profile pulley with the right internal geometry please? Is it simply a 1108-5/8” taper bush, or is there more to it than that?

Also, all threads on the saw have so far been metric. Should the spindle thread (pulley end, RH thread) be M16?

Any pointers gratefully received.

Many thanks,
Andy (pouring a dram and cursing quietly...).

 

[Vann]

...Also, all threads on the saw have so far been metric. Should the spindle thread (pulley end, RH thread) be M16?

Not speaking from personal experience, but I'm sure I've read of "transitional" AGSs, where some threads are imperial (mostly BSW) and some are metric.

So trust nothing. Measure the diameter and the thread pitch, then consult thread charts until you can match the two.

Good luck.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndrewS]

So with a little more late night research, it seems the spindle pulley thread is in fact 5/8” BSF, despite the rest of the machine being metric. I’ve ordered a decent die nut and taps and am crossing my fingers that I can recover it.

I’ve also ordered a 3-groove pulley with new bushing; they were cheap so no great loss if it doesn’t fit. A proper, solid pulley would be ideal if anyone knows where I could source one. Having one made locally is almost certainly cost-prohibitive given that most machine shops serve the offshore oil and gas industry...

Thanks!

 

[deema]

Now, I might be wrong……but all of the pulley end threads on all AGS saws I’ve worked on have not been any standard thread! They have all been a UNS thread (yep, that is UNS not a typo for UNC) A complete pain in the rear when I’ve had to replace nuts / resolve issues with the thread. Often, the easiest solution is to completely remove the thread and create a new standard thread and replace the pulley nut

 

[AndrewS]

A bit more progress today.

Delighted with the home-made riving knife carrier bolt, a big improvement on the original and it works like a charm.

The loose-fitting pulley appears to have abraded the spindle landing a little as it’s been waggling around, the landing is coming in at ~15.6mm dia instead of 15.875mm (5/8”).
I’ve ordered a new triple belt pulley and taperlock bushing, and a solid cast iron pulley with pilot bore that I can bore out to match the spindle. Fingers crossed one of them will work out!

Meantime, I’m being teased by the arrival of new blades from Sheffield Industrial Saws!!