Xcalibur - pics

[Steve Maskery]

I've spent the last couple of days making space for my new toy, arriving Monday or Tuesday. Something has struck me. On the data sheet it describes the motor as 3Hp 230V 18A. Now then,

1HP = 746W
3HP = 2238 W
2238/230 = 9.7 A.

Now I know that motors draw more on startup than in running, so is this where the 18A comes in? Will it blow a 13A fuse in a normal plug? Do I need a separate supply to run this properly?

How do the rest of you get on? Philly? Who else has one?

 

[Waka]

Steve

All these guys that are having the saws deleivered this coming week, there will be gloats galore.

Regarding your 3hp beauty, it will not run on 13amp fuse, you will need to put in the larger, I think 16amp, mine runs off a 32amp but then its 5hp. Philly shouls be a long shortly to confirm the 16 amp plug and socket.

So the bottom line is, yes you will need a seperate supply for the saw.

 

[Philly]

Steve
Mine is on a 32amp breaker. On a 16amp it trips on start-up.
As Waka says, a seperate supply will be needed. Time to get the Sparky out :wink:
Cheers
Philly

 

[andycktm]

HI,
I'm not an electrican, but i have got a "type c"(b is standard)mcb 16amp.These cover inductive startup loads. Had no problem's since.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Thanks guys, I feared as much.

Andy, could you elaborate a bit? Do you mean you have an MCB in between you saw and an ordinary outlet? Can I buy one of these over the counter or is it a specialist one?

 

[andycktm]

Steve , i've got a 16amp supply but it would trip with a certain machine so i enquired and was told to get a "type c" breaker, it goes in the consumer unit in my garage.It was bought from a local electrical supplier,(not b&Q).Still 16amp though.Sorry i was mainly posting because of philly's case.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CM9032C.html

 

[Steve Maskery]

That's clear, thank you.

 

[9fingers]

Steve,

Firstly hopefully an answer or two then a question.
C type MCBs are common at screwfix/toolstation cheaply or more expensively at your local electrical wholesaler. I doubt if you will find them in the sheds.
Make sure it is the same make as your consumer unit
You fit it in the consumer unit to feed the supply to your saw.
Not difficult but could be a job for a sparks if you are not confident.

Now for Current ratings and power calculations
your sums are Ok for DC but not for AC power.

The power is still HP x 746 watts but the current need to produce that power is greater than power / voltage. In addition the starting current is even greater which is how we get to 19 amps.
The reasons are complex and probably not worth going into.
There is an element of good news. The power is what you are paying for and the leccy board have to find the excess current. All you have to do is provide the fusing and the cable capable of carrying the extra current.



Now for my question. When you are assembling the 806 and adding the table extensions, one extension has 4 extra tapped holes in it. I can't see any reference in the manual to this but I assume it is for an accessory that I don't have. Which side should this extension be fitted?


Regards

Bob

 

[Steve Maskery]

Thanks Bob,

I'm definitely getting a sparks in. Apart from the legalities, this is way beyond my experience.

I'll check with mine when it arrives. Could the holes be for the sliding carriage?

 

[Fecn]

It will almost certainly run on a 13A fuse.. since fuses include enough time delay to overcome the initial current surge from the motor.

It will almost certainly trip-out a standard 16A MCB since they react a lot more quickly than fuses.. unless you have the type-C ones recommended by 9-fingers and others.

I've seen many a 3HP compressor plugged into a standard UK 13A socket on a 32A ring without problems.

The 19A current value is becuase they rate equipment for voltage-dip situations (down to 180V with the comptuer stuff I keep on buying) My latest PC reckons it needs a 16A supply even though it's only got a 1KW power supply in there.

Fecn

 

[9fingers]

I'll check with mine when it arrives. Could the holes be for the sliding carriage?

Ah yes that could be it. I'm surprised the manual did not mention this.
Whilst fitting the extensions is not hard, it does take some time to get them level and you would not want to do it twice. My extensions are not perfectly flat compared to the main table and so it was a case of fitting them so that the slight difference minimised the risk of scoring a line when cutting a wide panel. I've fitted the extensions very slightly lower than the main table by the thickness of a sheet of paper not more at the worst point.

I've decided to use the holes to support an extra side wing between the fence rails that I'll add later.

I can't readily fit in the huge fence guide rails so will plan to shorten them a bit. My workshop is only 2.75 m wide (but 9.8m long) and I want to have the blade parallel to the long axis of the shop. It seems a shame to cut the rails but I just can't fit them in as well as have most of a 4 foot board to the left of the blade.

I guess I must have beem lucky if most of the Xcalibur kit is arriving this week, I got mine on the 9th Jan but I've still not been able to make any sawdust yet as SWMBO is convalescing after a wrist replacement operation and I'm head cook & bottlewasher at the moment. Still the roast dinner is already to cook and I'm going to sneak down the garden to play after this.

Bob

 

[mahking51]

Hi Guys,
Have read the above with great interest as my 806 gets here tomorrow, .
I am going to get a dedicated WS consumer unit run in and will tap the saw from there. At the moment the supply to the WS is from my house consumer unit.
I will do the donkey work and my next door neighbour the tricky stuff as he is an Electrical Engineer. Is that the same as a normal sparks? :?: :?
Good luck to all with their installs
Martin

 

[andycktm]

Interesting eh!!!!!,
how about this then...........I have the compressor that fecn mention's and the motor is rated at 14.6amps , 2.2kw ,240 volts.
So i just tested it with the maplin plug in meter.
results:-
Drawing 6.7 amps or 1645 watts at 246 volts.
So i presume that the motor can take a maximum of 14.6 amps if the voltage drop's to low? :?

 

[Mdotflorida]

I will do the donkey work and my next door neighbour the tricky stuff as he is an Electrical Engineer. Is that the same as a normal sparks?

I don't know if he would call himself a 'sparky'. I'm sure he has the knowledge but can he do it legally ? Aren't we getting around to part P regs again ?

Jeff

 

[Woody Alan]

Hi

Some thoughts, I have the 806 I found that my extension tables fitted best with the holes to the right side and "assumed" they were for bolting further panels in place for a table between the rails, also if a sliding table is fitted isn't the left extension removed? Also be prepared to put some physical effort into "bending" yes that's right, bending the cast extensions tightening bolts and slackening until it comes right. We're only talking a few thou probably caused by stress relief of the casting after machining.

It will blow a 13 amp fuse no question DAMHIKT I just couldn't wait. Next I have fitted the record sliding table to mine not without some difficulties and wouldn't wholeheartedly recommend it unless you are determined and resourceful, but I don't regret it. If you want to try something similar there was a dewalt sliding table whic could "possibly" be made to fit on here recently.

Finally because of the table, I don't need rails of that length but simply I am unable to bring myself to cut the ones supplied so have bought my desired lengths from a steel stockholder, very easy and cheap to do, just require drilling and painting. If I had actually finished it I would post some pics but I seem to be continually on another project. Something to do with age and the time space continuum I think, I seem to do less in more time than I used to, but feel more tired.

Cheers Alan

 

[Steve Maskery]

I don't need rails of that length but simply I am unable to bring myself to cut the ones supplied so have bought my desired lengths from a steel stockholder, very easy and cheap to do, just require drilling and painting.

Alan, I am the same, I don't have the space for the rails, but it seems sacrilege to cut them. What size are the rails? 1 3/4" square section?

I replaced the rails on my old one years ago, made a fence from plans in FWW and never once regretted it. I also prefer to have the fence to the left of the blade. That way it matches my bandsaw. I don't know why the standards are opposite.

One problem is that I have this saw on loan, so I can't really start taking a hacksaw to it (although Roy expects me to do just that).

I have another problem guys. How do you move this beasty about? Roy has no wheel kits in stock, and I went to Derby on Friday but they have none in stock. I could just get one from Ax. But the trouble is that all these wheel systems seem to have two swivels at the front and two fixed wheels at the back. I want 4 swivels!

I've thought of a way to do this, closely based on the Record Power model in Alan Holtham's Bandsaw DVD. I'll try and get it modelled up and posted here. I'm sure it would work, but I don't know how one calculates the forces involved.

 

[Steve Maskery]

This is the style of lift I have in mind.

The one on the left is seated on the floor, the one on the right has an invisible foot pressing on the bar, lowering the wheels and therefore raising the machine.

I know it will work in principle, but how do I ensure I get the forces right?

 

[Woody Alan]

Steve

I am bogged down at the moment or I would go and measure again, but be assured they are all off the shelf standard dimensions for square box section and two angles, what is annoying is I only just threw out the piece of paper with dimensions on that I carried for 3 months in my wallet before I happened by the steel place. I'll see if I find time when I get home from work tommorrow, I'll give you all required dimensions.

Cheers Alan

 

[9fingers]

This is the style of lift I have in mind.


I know it will work in principle, but how do I ensure I get the forces right?

Steve,
One way to work this out is to draw the mechanism in a few positions during the lifting process.

Measure/calculate the distance each key point moves especially the base of the saw and the operating bar once any slack has been taken up by the pivots and slides. Express this as a ratio. say it comes to 9:1

ie 9" moved by the bar lifts the saw by 1". This is called the 'mechanical advantage'.
The force you have to apply (ignoring friction) is the weight of the saw (500lbs) divided by the mechanical advantage. So in our example 55lbs of effort will lift the saw.
By similar methods you can work out the forces at the various parts of the mechanism.

One thing to bear in mind is that the castor pivots are offset with respect to the wheel bearings so you will either have to ensure all castors are not in any way under the saw or have to mount them sufficiently outboard from the saw base so they don't foul the base when you lower the saw.



I have put my 806 on an Ax base and with a bit of shunting, it can be put in any position even with only two castoring wheels.

Hope this helps

Bob

 

[devonwoody]

Members most probably know I have in the past returned two tablesaws owing to being dissatisfied with my purchases. The product excalibar has appeared on this forum in the past so any information to a future prospective buyer would be interesting. (return March)