WTB : (Tuned-up) vintage tenon saw

[pompon44]

Hi,

After testing a Japanese Dozuki (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=13675), I think this kind of straigth handle is not for me. So I'd like to test a more traditional Western saw.

I'm ready to go for new (*), but would like first to see if someone here would be ready to sell me a vintage ~14" rip tenon saw (with a remaining useable depth of cut above 3", my first goal behing to use it to build my workbench, hence some moderately large tenons), preferably already tuned-up properly (so I can only concentrate on the useage of it, not the tune-up for the moment).

Thanks,

(*) I might note here that I first contacted a well-known saw maker, and that he was himself who advised me to first try locate a vintage one, as a cheaper alternative to his own saws. That's what I'd call a superb customer service, even before being a customer ! If I do not find a vintage one, I'll for sure become a customer of this great man !

 

[bugbear]

I'm ready to go for new (*), but would like first to see if someone here would be ready to sell me a vintage ~14" rip tenon saw (with a remaining useable depth of cut above 3", my first goal behing to use it to build my workbench, hence some moderately large tenons), preferably already tuned-up properly (so I can only concentrate on the useage of it, not the tune-up for the moment).

Those would be extremely large tenons; I think "in the old days" the craftsman would have use a "Hand saw" (i.e. backless saw) for such large cuts.

Doesn't mean we have to, of course

For someone to find, buy, clean, re-file (rip tenons are rather rare) a saw, and post it to you is going to cost you between 20-40 pounds depending on the sellers motivation. At a guess.

BugBear

 

[Alf]

Pompon, had a look but I don't have anything fitting your criteria I'm afraid.

Cheers, Alf

 

[laurenth]

Salut Pompon ,

If you happen to pay a visit to Paris, you could borrow one of my vintage saw, not they are in the best shape at the moment, I'm still learning saw sharpening, but it could give you a fair idea if you like it or not. You could as well give ebay a try ...

Kind regards, Laurent

 

[pompon44]

Hi,

Thanks for your answers.

Rarebear : well, I did not think 3" deep (through) tenons were considered extremely large. Anyway, this is what I'll need for the base, however they are called ;-) Thanks for the price guess. Would be ok.

Alf, thanks for having a look. May I abuse and ask if you don't have a shorter one then :wink: (or is it that you only have narrower ones ?)

Laurenth : thanks for the offer, I'll think about it if I happen to stay in Paris more than a few hours as it usually happens for my work
Concerning eBay, well, no. Too much of a lottery. Tried for planes, and not really willing to go that route again for saws.

Regards,

 

[Alf]

Only narrower - although not by much. They also need refiling to rip and the one with the best tooth count for that has an oddly thin handle. Other than that I have just the thing... #-o :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

Rarebear : well, I did not think 3" deep (through) tenons were considered extremely large. Anyway, this is what I'll need for the base, however they are called ;-) Thanks for the price guess. Would be ok.

Heh; rarebear is another person, on another forum. I'm "BugBear".

Anyway, in cabinet making that *IS* an extremely big tenon; more like small "timber framing", which is a term often applied to workbench frames.

Such joints might also occur in a door, but (again) that's "joinery" not cabinetmaking.

What TPI were you thinking of for your saw - so far we have length and depth?

BugBear

 

[pompon44]

Hi,

My deepest apologies for the rare bug ;-)

As far as the number of teeth is concerned, well, you know I'm a beginner, so FWIW, I was thinking of something like 12 PPI.

Regards,

 

[MikeW]

Well, see I should have left well enough alone <g>.

It suspect the size of a saw used for tenons is a method of work, personal habits issue.

I do use a yet larger tenon saw for, well, large work. My most often used size for all but the smallest work is comparable to the Kenyon sash saw. At 14" and 12 ppi rip, it is a well balanced saw, and is not too fine to take too long sawing nor too coarse as to not work well on smaller stock. The original Kenyon sash in the Seaton chest was 13 ppi. It also is a skosh under 3" of usable depth at the heel [all the back saws are tapered in usable height].

Now, a saw once described in jest as freakishly huge is a big saw. And yet as can be seen at the link, can still be used on moderately-sized furniture.

My recommendation to Pompon was to enable both cutting for larger tenons and still be useful down the road for smaller furniture. Of course, two saws would be better. The second being a carcass rip. Well, and a carcass cross cut. Then there is the saw for smaller joinery. And ...

As regards the cutting of large tenons beyond the capability of my largest backsaw [unlikely to happen again], my preference is to begin with a back saw to or near its usable depth and deepen with a handsaw. For me, at least establishing the cutting angle is much easier with a backed-saw.

I'm always glad to help someone spend their money, especially if it is with me. It's just not always the best use of one's money if there is an alternative.

Take care, Mike

 

[pompon44]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your answer (and for explaining better than I my own needs ;-) )

One question : wouldn't it be ok for me (i.e. cutting both 3" tenons, only once for my workbench, and then using the same saw for smaller work -hopefully many many times) to go for what's called "small tenon saws" on your site ?
I see that for closed handles, those saws can have a tad more than 3" depth of cut. They are shorter, but wouldn't 12" be enough for the workbench (and plenty for the rest of my work) ? I know your initial recommendation was 14", but was it a matter of cutting efficiency or use of comfort ?

Regards,

 

[MikeW]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your answer (and for explaining better than I my own needs ;-) )

One question : wouldn't it be ok for me (i.e. cutting both 3" tenons, only once for my workbench, and then using the same saw for smaller work -hopefully many many times) to go for what's called "small tenon saws" on your site ?
I see that for closed handles, those saws can have a tad more than 3" depth of cut. They are shorter, but wouldn't 12" be enough for the workbench (and plenty for the rest of my work) ? I know your initial recommendation was 14", but was it a matter of cutting efficiency or use of comfort ?

Regards,

A shorter saw would be fine, but yes, the stroke difference to me is an issue. Perhaps not for another.

Here's my reasoning. Cutting depth being the same, a 14" saw is visually more balanced once the cutting depth increases. Too, the cutting stroke, being more efficient, I believe decreases opportunity for sawing fatigue to help introduce error. Same with having less ppi than some would think be "better." I think, though, there are compromises we all must make. That being for the saw to have a wider utility, I think 11-12 ppi on the 14" saw would be a better compromise than a shorter saw with similar cutting depth.

My own preference is I do not like using all the usable cutting depth available on a given saw. So, a carcass saw with say an 11" blade and 2" to 2 1/4" of usable depth. If I was using that saw for tenons, I would tend to us it on tenons of no more than 1 3/4" in length. And I have. That size saw does much of the work I do on carcass construction.

But for most of the tenons I do, I opt for a longer saw of more usable depth and longer stroke length and a little coarser PPI. I find a slightly taller saw helps my sense of vertical as I am going through the first 1" or so of sawing a tenon.

Pompon, I was digging through the attic above my shop and found a couple saws which may work for you. If someone a bit closer to you shipping cost wise doesn't have something which meets your needs in a week or so, I would be glad to tune them up and send them to you for the cost of shipping.

Take care, Mike

 

[pompon44]

Hi Mike,

That's a deal ! I'll be glad to accept your offer if nobody closest to you -which is, unfortunately for me, highly unprobable ;-) - rises a hand.

Thanks a lot,

Best regards,