Workshop Security

[Dibs-h]

Seriously that is - what is legal and what isn't? Obviously forgoing the far fetched.

I mean how different is a dog trained to kill "parked" in a workshop any different to say electrifying bars on the inside of windows?

At the mo - I'm going down the road of klaxons (or thereabouts) and maybe a smoke machine (any recommendations for what & where for both)? All the obvious stuff - like alarm, bars, etc. is already a WIP.

The legal thingy - kalxons in a confined environment could have the potential for ruining hearing, especially if the smoke machine went off and it took a bit too long to get out. What then?

 

[BMac]

The problem is that however much we would like to see the thieves receive instant punishment, if we do set up traps and install vicious dogs without warning, we are breaking the law. My cousin had a huge Alsation that sat quietly watching two thieves dropping over the wall and into the yard of the shop - then it went into action and nearly ate them. Both thieves got substantial compensation and my cousin got a caution.

Essentially we are trying to stop entry at the easiest point of the building which is usually a door or window. I installed substantial window bars and a huge padlock on the door and the thieves got in by simply cutting the padlock with bolt cutters. Like yourself I am looking at sirens and smoke because my faith in padlocks has evaporated. My thinking is to go for noise because thieves tend to operate at night and a loud noise would be more effective then.

However, I am interested in any legal defences that are employed by members here.

Brendan

 

[eggflan]

If you have a dog get a sign up warning the would be intruders , a beware of the dog sign on a back gate is all you need to protect yourself as you have done your bit by warning people so they enter at their own risk :wink:

Noise is what you want , tea leaves hate noise (just make sure you dont get too many false alarms as this will just annoy the neighbours )

Also if your workshop is not too far from the house you can use a baby monitor , i use one on a night when im working so i can hear the kids if they get up then before i lock up i swap them round so the microphone bit is in the workshop and the reciever is next to my bed :lol:

 

[big soft moose]

The smoke system we used to have when I worked in milton keynes was called smokle cloak - it emnmited harmless glycol "smoke" (actually more like fog) and would completely obscure a room within 30 seconds of activation

there were no health concerns attached to the smoke except those of someone falling over and hurting themselves through not being able to see - you can remove the legal concerns by having warning signs outside the 'shop

the other poiint being that it is wise to get one you can deactivate remotely so that you dont have to . about in a smoke filled room trying to find the alarm panel

linky here http://www.smokecloak.com/en/

 

[pren]

As far as I'm aware, the magic term here is 'reasonable measures'. As long as you take reasonable measures to warn people as to the presence of any anti-intruder devices then it can be proven that Johnny ASBO knew what he was getting himself in for and only has himself to blame.

Unfortunately this does mean having nice, easy to read warning signs slapped all over your property. :? This also has the added bonus of advertising the fact that there is something worth nicking, just the other side of this fence.

I'm assuming this only goes as far as non/less lethal measures such as anti-climb spikes and sound bombs. Protesting that you had a sign up that warned of a Mine Field may not hold much sway with the law as you pick bits of the offending Oik from your clematis. :lol:

I quite like the idea of a sign that reads: 'If you're reading this your hands are probably bleeding and you've got an Alsatian hanging from your throat'. :lol:


I wonder if there could be any mileage in making up a sign that warns of the presence of an electrified 'death fence' inside your shed. Might make the poor dears think twice :idea:

 

[Dibs-h]

I wonder if there could be any mileage in making up a sign that warns of the presence of an electrified 'death fence' inside your shed. Might make the poor dears think twice :idea:

You read my mind somehow - I did toy and perhaps still am toying with the idea of connecting the internal security bars over the windows to the mains supply. As long as there is a sign in the window of the workshop saying "breaking and entering could result in death or serious injury"? :wink:

 

[Jake]

Really don't do that.

What happens if you are out, power on, and there's a fire in your shed?

 

[Dibs-h]

Really don't do that.

What happens if you are out, power on, and there's a fire in your shed?

Actually what I was thinking of was having a flylead with a 13a plug (no fuse) with the bare end wrapped around the metal grills and the plug going into a dummy socket in the wall (i.e. not part of a ring main or spur).

It would certainly give pause for thought to anyone looking in - especially if the sign in the window suggests the grills are live.

To be Honest - Jake if there was a fire in my shed, assuming I'd fully moved in - I don't think the Fire Brigade would be venturing inside, what with the oxy-acetylene, mapp, propane, highly volatile stuff etc. that's involved in tinkering with cars, welding, etc. and paints\finishes. :wink:

 

[Jake]

Fake is better than real, for sure.

You could add some radiation hazard signs

 

[Dibs-h]

You could add some radiation hazard signs

In the current climate - orange underpants are still available, don't fancy them to be honest. :wink:

But as Johnny Asbo - seeing a flylead from a socket connected to internal grills - would certainly be pause for thought.

 

[2tone]

i've just watched all the smoke screen security videos on youtube.

OMG, its amazing- if i were going to get any system it would be this, first of all you can't steal because you can't see, can't leave for the same reason. Not only that, i think if i were walking by a place and a burgler alarm was going off i would be less invlined to enter for the fear of meeting the burglers, if you think a place is on fire, i think people are more likely to pay attention.

Such a simple idea, you would have thought it would be more mainstream by now.....

Burglers beware "i'm gonna smoke your ass"

buy smoke a screen!

 

[big soft moose]

You could add some radiation hazard signs

In the current climate - orange underpants are still available, don't fancy them to be honest. :wink:

But as Johnny Asbo - seeing a flylead from a socket connected to internal grills - would certainly be pause for thought.

tho it does assume johnny asbo is bright enough to look first or to compehend what he is seeing

 

[Dibs-h]

You could add some radiation hazard signs

In the current climate - orange underpants are still available, don't fancy them to be honest. :wink:

But as Johnny Asbo - seeing a flylead from a socket connected to internal grills - would certainly be pause for thought.

tho it does assume johnny asbo is bright enough to look first or to compehend what he is seeing

Little'ish sign on the grills - electrocution symbol or something :wink:

Hopefully phsical security will be such - you'd either have to bring a digger or run a Stihl saw for 10 or so mins to get in - which lets face it isn't John Asbo.

On the subject of security - I was thinking 2 locks on the door would be sufficient - 5 Lever (BS) deadlock (about 1/3 up) then a cylinder one 1/3 down from the top with a noddy handle one in the middle. Obviously in both cases - the keeps would be part of the steel jamb. Obviously hinges bolts on the other side. The windows have Maco espags with 3 pairs of bolts - so that won't be so easy.

Anyone got any Klaxons\Sounders in their workshop? Any suggestions, etc.

As adjoining garage won't be ready for some months - I'm going to get another alarm panel and fit it to the workshop. The workshop will get power from the existing garage - by running a cable from ridge to ridge. Not ideal - but I can live with it for a some months. Pir's, door contacts & shock sensors will all be re-used when the house alarm gets upgraded when all the building work is complete - i.e. 1 integrated system.

 

[OPJ]

What about making some wooden shutters to go over the windows?

Even if they managed to break the glass 'silently' (there are ways to make less noise doing it... :?) they'd have to hack the shutters to bits just to get it.

A great way to use up any spare timber, as well! :wink:

 

[Chems]

That smoke cloak is the coolest thing I've ever seen!

I wonder if they've ever caught someone, like they've got in the smokes come on and they've been unable to find there way back out? Shoot I've been lost in the fire house in training tons of times, and I know the layout!

 

[Dibs-h]

That smoke cloak is the coolest thing I've ever seen!

I wonder if they've ever caught someone, like they've got in the smokes come on and they've been unable to find there way back out? Shoot I've been lost in the fire house in training tons of times, and I know the layout!

Be even funnier if roller shutters on the inside then came down - be rather hilarious to come back and find some scrote locked in!

 

[slimshady]

With regard to electrified bars, etc. On my travels I have seen various defence establishments with elec wire. I presume that the current isn't high enough to do damage just scare off the intruders. Same H&S rules would apply to them. Of course the other danger is getting yourself shot.

Alex.

 

[dexter]

There's a product on the market at the moment called `Smartwater`
All of my tools are marked up with it and it can be fitted in commercial premises in the form of an atomised spray. I would think that a similar setup could be arranged for a home workshop but I`ve no idea of the cost.
It`s worth checking out their website.

Dex

 

[Dibs-h]

There's a product on the market at the moment called `Smartwater`
All of my tools are marked up with it and it can be fitted in commercial premises in the form of an atomised spray. I would think that a similar setup could be arranged for a home workshop but I`ve no idea of the cost.
It`s worth checking out their website.

Dex

We have a SmartWater license - most stuff is done but those particular bits hadn't. Its been around for a few yrs now.

The spray setup is around £1.5k - I asked a few yrs ago. :shock:

I'd much rather have the scrote sprayed with indelible ink - one that's takes months to wear off and is obvious - like bright purple.

 

[big soft moose]

With regard to electrified bars, etc. On my travels I have seen various defence establishments with elec wire. I presume that the current isn't high enough to do damage just scare off the intruders. Same H&S rules would apply to them. Of course the other danger is getting yourself shot.

Alex.

they'll probably be powered with punch packer type units - similar to those used on agricultural electric fencing - where you get a pulse of high voltage but low amperage current

so it hurts and is difficult to climb but doesnt cause lasting harm