Workshop burgled, now my tools are on eBay

[Phil Pascoe]

If I was thinking of burgling somewhere I wouldn’t expect to encounter a looney fascist (look up Martin) who would shoot me in the back. But life is full of surprises

If I were thinking to burgle someone that's one reason why I don't. But hey ho, I'm not a feral sixteen year old.

 

[sploo]

If I was thinking of burgling somewhere I wouldn’t expect to encounter a looney fascist (look up Martin) who would shoot me in the back. But life is full of surprises

I think I'd work on the logic that if I were planning on breaking into someone's property I'd be taking my life into my own hands as I couldn't reasonably expect a surprised and scared individual to act rationally towards me. I'm not remotely in favour of burglars getting exterminated, but I struggle to feel sympathy for someone choosing to put themselves in that situation.

 

[Spectric]

If I was thinking of burgling somewhere I wouldn’t expect to encounter a looney fascist (look up Martin) who would shoot me in the back. But life is full of surprises

Once you cross the line then you are into unknown territory and must expect the unexpected. If you are willing to do something like burgulary then you must also be willing to accept the consequences which in the states the risk of being shot is the norm.

 

[MikeJhn]

The person responsible for the 16 yr olds death was the man who pulled the trigger and shot him in the back. How can anyone with any sense argue otherwise.

Let's not forget that the Farm had been broken into multiple times by this 16 yr old and his accomplices, Martin shot him as he was exiting his kitchen window, it's not just as simple as he shot him in the back.

 

[Bingy man]

Taking every case on merit a small percentage might earn a little sympathy from me eg those ghat steal due to cohesive behaviour by even worse low life’s who are in fear for their own safety and have little or choice but I reckon these are a minority . If you steal live power cables ,, or rip out live gas or worse steam copper pipes , or lead from church roofs etc - you have already accepted that your life is put at risk by your own actions and as a result if you are injured or worse then you are to blame - what is not acceptable is you or your family sue the church or the home owner or the railway company to get £££££££ in compensation for your own actions .edit
You reap what you sow ..

 

[Blackswanwood]

Let's not forget that the Farm had been broken into multiple times by this 16 yr old and his accomplices, Martin shot him as he was exiting his kitchen window, it's not just as simple as he shot him in the back.

I read a number of the source articles from Wikipedia last night and there seems to be a lot more to it than I remember having seen at the time.

Martin clearly had issues - most of his neighbours were scared of him. There was a body of evidence that his claims of previously being burgled were not accurate. He'd had his shotgun licence revoked after several previous instances and the type of shotgun was illegal in any case. He was on record as saying members of the travelling community should be fenced in and shot. etc etc.

The central case of the prosecution (which was accepted by the jury) was that he could have frightened the burglars off but instead he chose to lie in wait and then shoot them.

He shouldn't have been put in the situation he was by Barras and his accomplice but I can also see why the jury found him guilty. I'd caveat that though by adding it seems his mental health issues weren't presented in his defence - hence the appeal which did take this into account.

I know you mentioned you've been on the sh!tty end of the stick with something similar Mike and I am thoughtful as to whether my opinion would be different if I had been.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

He was on record as saying members of the travelling community should be fenced in and shot. etc etc.

Scores around here would agree with him.

 

[MikeJhn]

If as the reports say he was lying in wait for them, would give evidence that he had been burgled before and knew when and how they would access, so the "Claims" that he had been burgled before not being accurate are in themselves not accurate. The type of shotgun being illegal is irrelevant, a bit like saying the cyclist was run over, but was not wearing a helmet.

 

[TRITON]

Your description of a gung ho execution is as offensive as it is factually incorrect.

I wouldnt say it was factually incorrect.

The firearms officers boarded the train and it was initially claimed they challenged the suspect, though later reports indicate he was not challenged. According to one officer identified only as 'Hotel 3',Mr De Menezes then stood up and moved towards the officers and Hotel 3, at which point Hotel 3 grabbed him, pinned his arms against his torso, and pushed him back into the seat. Although Menezes was being restrained, his body was straight and not in a natural sitting position. Hotel 3 heard a shot close to his ear, and was dragged away onto the floor of the carriage. He shouted "Police!" and with hands raised was dragged out of the carriage by one of the armed officers who had boarded the train. Hotel 3 then heard several gunshots while being dragged out.

Clearly the point was to kill the 'suspect' as quickly as possible. Grabbed hold of without warning, then the officers unloaded their weapons into his head. I believe I also read somewhere the point of aiming was directly at the cerebellum. The ammunition used was the expanding type.

Due to the lack of warning, no attempt made to arrest and handcuff to be taken into custody, the officers had previously made the decision(or had been previously instructed) to kill the suspect(Mr De Mendez) before they boarded the train. THAT is an execution.

 

[Max Power]

He was on record as saying members of the travelling community should be fenced in and shot. etc etc.

Scores around here would agree with him.

Why not go the whole hog and open the gas chambers back up
Hitler is alive and living in Cornwall.


.

 

[TRITON]

He was on record as saying members of the travelling community should be fenced in and shot. etc

Do you think that was related to being burgled ?

The central case of the prosecution (which was accepted by the jury) was that he could have frightened the burglars off but instead he chose to lie in wait and then shoot them.

The prosecution will always try to propose the worst possible scenario. It's like a made up story

 

[Blackswanwood]

Do you think that was related to being burgled ?



The prosecution will always try to propose the worst possible scenario. It's like a made up story

I don't know but it could have been.

The prosecution will always seek to present their case in the most convincing way they can. Equally the defence lawyers will do exactly the same. The jury made the decision on all the facts they heard. Given I have a view that reasonable force is the way the law should work all I am saying is that based on what I read last night I could understand the jury making the decision they did. There may be more facts and I respect that other people may see it differently.

I'm regretting getting drawn in as when we have people posting that the notion of rounding travellers up and shooting them (post 227) is funny I think it's time be prepared to be classed as woke. I'm out of it!

 

[Max Power]

I'm regretting getting drawn in as when we have people posting that the notion of rounding travellers up and shooting them (post 227) is funny I think it's time be prepared to be classed as woke. I'm out of it!

I must admit I've seen some surprising comments on here over the years, but the one you're referring to is at a whole new level.

 

[BucksDad]

Yes the comment about travellers surprised me. It seems brazen comments like that on here are now acceptable.

Usually a mod like MikeK would step in and close it down but it looks like MikeK is no longer a mod and also no longer posts here which is a shame

 

[TRITON]

Martin clearly had issues - most of his neighbours were scared of him.

Without this being taken badly, or saying you are in this camp or that, or even whether you are right or wrong we should examine that statement for what is it.

Broken down, as I've also read the wiki on this.
" Most of his neighbours were scared of him"

Scared why ? it does not say, so are we to surmise that he was a crazed gangster type, without thought of anyone elses ? or that he was an angry sob, or that he was surly or what.
Without actually knowing what is meant by that line(or statement if you want to call it that) we can infer everything and nothing. In fact its worse because it infers the negative and in light of his actions and subsequent conviction, it implies possibly something it is not.

I've been classed by some I worked with as misanthropic. But in the definition of that term it makes me out to be someone that hates people, life etc, when the truth of the matter is i pretty much keep my self to me self and because I have Aspergers, im not that sociable. So perhaps in others eyes im curt and unfeeling.

Tony Martin also had autism, so from another's point of view - his neighbours might also see him as misanthropic, surly and unsociable. A farmers life can be one where they work by themselves with themself for company, so maybe sociability is not the usual frame of mind. I think a phrase fitting might be - Does not suffer fools gladly.

Here's a later article in the BBC.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-49355814
and this(sorry DM -take tea and kittens if needed) that seems to bear no relation to the prosecutions chain of events
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ging-burglars-targeted-home-20-years-ago.html

 

[Sideways]

And that's enough.
Locked.