Workshop burgled, now my tools are on eBay

[Terrytpot]

Having personal experience of how ineffective the police can be I was determined to ensure the attached garage on my property was as secure as I could possibly make it. I have a full width roller sectional door that it is switched off at all times and has an additional deadbolt keeping it locked until I need to open it which can only be done from inside.To the rear it had a wooden door with mortise latch that was replaced by a Heavy duty steel door from Latham doors (highly recommended especially as they aren’t as expensive as you would think). There is a single double glazed window on the rear elevation which only has a top opening section and on the inside I made a set of steel bars welded into a frame that are permanently screwed in place and backed up with a roller blind that is always lowered to prevent a view in to the garage. Ideally I should add an alarm but seeing as anyone who walks past our house triggers my four legged one that may be overkill
Every item that I buy has a photo taken of it and gets added to a spreadsheet listing when,where and how much along with serial numbers etc.
In the short time I’ve lived here there have been quite a few burglaries on our estate but looking at those after they were targeted, none of them were particularly secure.
With the exception of the gangs hitting craftsmen on sites it seems to me that the majority of thefts are by low life’s looking for a quick easy buck and if you can make yourself neither quick or easy they’ll go find someone else who is.
The op has my sympathy and I wish him all the best in his attempts to gain some peace of mind.

 

[Spectric]

How were your tools stored within your workshop Andrew? Once they had broken in was it just a simple case of pick everything up and walk off, or did they have to break into storage cabinets too?

These modern storage boxes that all look so neat and tidy are just gift wrapping for the scum bags, they may make your life easier if on site to transport your tools around but they do the same for criminals. At the point they have accessed your property they have circumnavigated all prior security layers so now you need to think of making there collection of your tools and get away difficult. To get your head round security you should walk it through in your head and actually put yourself in the scum bags shoes, you don't want them to have access onto your property in the dark, use PIR lights and ensure no hiding places so place any lighting in suitable locations. The worst place for a criminal to target is one with just a single way in and oyut, they much prefer somewhere with a choice of eascape routes to avoid getting caught. If they get to the workshop you do not want any windows that they can look in as this gives them an idea of contents and maybe then motivation, if the contents are unknown and they see decent locks then some will not bother and go looking for an easier opportunity. If they do force the door and open it then one really good deterent is a latching alarm with a very very loud sounder, something really loud and not just something like a car horn. This will cause the scumbag issues because the noise will be getting everyones attention and if there is only one way off the property they will panic and leg it quickly. Again use chemical marking, smartwater has a good reputation and if your tools are really valuable then they do a spray system that will give the scumbag a dna marking that they cannot wash off and would prove beyond doubt that they were there. When it comes to locks and such the issue faced today is cordless grinders, you need to have a locking system that cannot be accessed by a grinder. These are really good
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schlosser-...garage+door+shoot+bolts&qid=1702198844&sr=8-6

you fit them on the inside, if the door is really thick you may have to cut the key and extend using a short length of 8mm tube so it can pass through the door, just silver solder it back together. You could also fit them on the fixed part and the bolts locate in the door. Now to help with the grinder threat you can use aluminium plate which clogs up a grinding wheel or gauge plate which is very hard, another way is to make a sandwich of aluminium plate and MDF, you try grinding through that. Other locks to consider

https://www.insight-security.com/squire-ss100-cen6-padlockhttps://www.padlocks.co.uk/products/high-security-padlocks/abloy-pl350
Also on a more general note many euro cylinder locks are shieetee, these protect your home so always look for anti snap / anti bump versions like

https://www.guardiansecuritysystems.co.uk/abloy-protec2-cy327-72mm-euro-double-cylinder
One last thing, it is harder to cut of two padlocks than one, multiplying security features is another good idea and a security door in front of your workshop door is another suggestion if done right, this can be made from box section and opens up a whole load more protective measures such as sliding bars and wrap round covers so that a scum bag would not attempt it simply because of the noise involved to attack it.

 

[Spectric]

Do they wear brown shirts?

They could easily be your neighbours, people who have had enough of scum bags and have got to the point of enough is enough. The synario is like if we turned off all our sewage treatment plants, eventualy we would all be swamped in shieete.

 

[Filament]

They could easily be your neighbours, people who have had enough of scum bags and have got to the point of enough is enough. The synario is like if we turned off all our sewage treatment plants, eventualy we would all be swamped in shieete.

Out of interest, how would you justify not describing these ‘psychos’ doling out beatings with no legal backing as anything other than violent criminals?

Also what sort of criminal is worse? A violent one or a non-violent thief?

Interested how you square the circle in your own mind

 

[Luckosaurous]

Im conflicted on this point. Some have advised that I should keep all tools in the house. But it was a pleasure to have a workshop with tools at hand ready to use. I also don't want to feel like a tool jailer constantly having to unlock and lock everything. Currently plan to do everything to stop initial entry. But am considering a tool wall with some lockable sections so premium tools are not on open display but can be opened up for access when needed.

Yeah that was one of my concerns, if I find it frustrating to use then I’ll end up not using it and just leaving all my tools in the top. My thoughts were that I only need to unlock it at the start and lock it at the end of each day, so it’s not a case of having to lock and unlock with every tool. But if I find it a pain having to go to the shear every time I want a tool then it will be a waste of money.

 

[Luckosaurous]

These modern storage boxes that all look so neat and tidy are just gift wrapping for the scum bags, they may make your life easier if on site to transport your tools around but they do the same for criminals. At the point they have accessed your property they have circumnavigated all prior security layers so now you need to think of making there collection of your tools and get away difficult. To get your head round security you should walk it through in your head and actually put yourself in the scum bags shoes, you don't want them to have access onto your property in the dark, use PIR lights and ensure no hiding places so place any lighting in suitable locations. The worst place for a criminal to target is one with just a single way in and oyut, they much prefer somewhere with a choice of eascape routes to avoid getting caught. If they get to the workshop you do not want any windows that they can look in as this gives them an idea of contents and maybe then motivation, if the contents are unknown and they see decent locks then some will not bother and go looking for an easier opportunity. If they do force the door and open it then one really good deterent is a latching alarm with a very very loud sounder, something really loud and not just something like a car horn. This will cause the scumbag issues because the noise will be getting everyones attention and if there is only one way off the property they will panic and leg it quickly. Again use chemical marking, smartwater has a good reputation and if your tools are really valuable then they do a spray system that will give the scumbag a dna marking that they cannot wash off and would prove beyond doubt that they were there. When it comes to locks and such the issue faced today is cordless grinders, you need to have a locking system that cannot be accessed by a grinder. These are really good
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schlosser-...garage+door+shoot+bolts&qid=1702198844&sr=8-6
View attachment 171429you fit them on the inside, if the door is really thick you may have to cut the key and extend using a short length of 8mm tube so it can pass through the door, just silver solder it back together. You could also fit them on the fixed part and the bolts locate in the door. Now to help with the grinder threat you can use aluminium plate which clogs up a grinding wheel or gauge plate which is very hard, another way is to make a sandwich of aluminium plate and MDF, you try grinding through that. Other locks to consider

https://www.insight-security.com/squire-ss100-cen6-padlockhttps://www.padlocks.co.uk/products/high-security-padlocks/abloy-pl350
Also on a more general note many euro cylinder locks are shieetee, these protect your home so always look for anti snap / anti bump versions like

https://www.guardiansecuritysystems.co.uk/abloy-protec2-cy327-72mm-euro-double-cylinder
One last thing, it is harder to cut of two padlocks than one, multiplying security features is another good idea and a security door in front of your workshop door is another suggestion if done right, this can be made from box section and opens up a whole load more protective measures such as sliding bars and wrap round covers so that a scum bag would not attempt it simply because of the noise involved to attack it.

Yeah I see your point. I was thinking if it’s bike locked to a wall then it could make the tools sufficiently difficult to access, but I guess if they were bringing an angle grinder with them then I guess I’m just gift wrapping my tools for them.

 

[MikeJhn]

Alarms are very cheap to buy and a visual deterrent, yes they can be foamed into silence, just make it harder to access, a sound bomb inside makes it very uncomfortable to be there, good locks are only as good as the hinge side of the door, make a point of noticing any strange vehicles driving past, look at the driver intently, trouble is if they where clean shaven, in the identity meeting they will have beards, experience not hearsay.

 

[CaptainBarnacles]

Im conflicted on this point. Some have advised that I should keep all tools in the house. But it was a pleasure to have a workshop with tools at hand ready to use. I also don't want to feel like a tool jailer constantly having to unlock and lock everything. Currently plan to do everything to stop initial entry. But am considering a tool wall with some lockable sections so premium tools are not on open display but can be opened up for access when needed.

I really sympathise with you and I hope you manage to recover some, or all, of your property. I certainly wouldn't advocate using physical violence as mentioned by @Spectric (a moderator!!) as that is likely to end in you being in more trouble than the burglars. I also agree with much of what @Filament says.

The Police are massively over-stretched and having to pick-and-choose which jobs they think they can successfully prosecute is just a fact of modern life. Sadly this incentivises petty crime and burglary further as the perpetrators know there's little chance of them being brought to justice. My understanding is that the Police's priority are crimes that involve violence and physical harm over property damage and theft and it's hard to argue against that as possessions can usually be replaced, people can't.

Anything you can do to help the police will usually make them more inclined to get involved though. Print out the Ebay pages, provide receipts for items where possible, do you have any photos of your workshop with the tools (just a snapshot that may have the tools in the background etc)? I would want some sort of assurance from the police that they would accompany you to collect the items if you were to purchase them on Ebay.

My workshop is about 80 metres from my house down a steep driveway and lugging all of my tools between house and workshop is a pain. I made a large tote for my hand tools but it weighs nearly 25kg. There's no way I'd try and move the power tools as well so they stay out of sight. I could protect my workshop more than I do but I then worry that it starts to look like a target because of the amount spent on security. Another benefit of bringing hand tools into the house is that they don't rust and that's enough to motivate me to keep doing it.

I have a couple of cameras but after recent burglary nearby the owner thought he'd have some great CCTV footage to show the police. The burglars had accomplices whose sole job was to shine high intensity LED torches into the cameras while the burglary was taking place, thus dazzling the cameras and resulting in absolutely no images of the offenders at all.

I like your idea of a lockable tool wall, how about if it was disguised to look like a regular wall? A painted brickwork effect etc?

I think that all we can do is to make the burglars task as difficult as possible. They will never stop so we need to do what we can to make their job difficult enough that they look elsewhere. I can't decide whether to obscure the windows of my workshop - is it better to have clear windows so the burglars can see there's nothing on display or easy to grab, or obscure the windows and risk them breaking in just to see what's inside?

 

[loftyhermes]

One place I worked at used the van vault type boxes, rawlbolted to the concrete floor or welded if on metal mezzanine floors

 

[Phil Pascoe]

This subject's been covered several times. If a crook wants your property he'll take it. As others have said, you need layers of time consuming (and noisy, ideally) protection - all you are doing basically is ensuring the crooks go somewhere else.
I had a new trailer stolen from outside my house, a neighbour saw it and reported it, but the police took too long to get there. Seven or eight men turned up with a low loader at 3am and picked up the trailer (which had a hitch lock and wheel clamps), chucked it on the back and off they went. The police came to visit at about 10.30am and told me it was a waste of their time looking for it as it would have been somewhere in the midlands by then (they did say the local pie keys were the most likely suspects). My wife said I should have chained it to a tree, but no way were men going out to thieve at that time of the morning not going to be equiped with an angle grinder and bolt croppers, besides which in a public place someone would have tripped over it. This was fewer than twelve months after the previous trailer was stolen.
An acquaintance told he allowed ten gallons of diesel a week for theft - he was tired of going to the police with the names and cctv evidence of the perps, the police were afraid of them and wouldn't touch them.

 

[Graham Brazier]

My security suggestions from an ex cop who has helped people get their stuff back from tools , bikes or cars but has also had to say unless ya have a serial number or can tell me a unique mark or what’s engraved in ya Dewalt combo drill that you say the 2nd hand market trader is selling then I can’t help you , i need proof I’m afraid

1- decent locks on doors and garages
2- alarm or alarm box ( real one not dummy one from Amazon)
3- engrave all tools name post code
4- serial numbers record them
I’ve had it over the years
5- smart water - with stickers on front of building advertising this - if ya move inform the smart water company
6- garden tools / ladders - lock them away , surprising how many offenders use the owners tools to break in to the property ( saves them getting nicked for going equipped if caught)

Think flat roof - can you get on there and access the workshop ya house

Gave a think If you lost ya keys how would you gain access to ya workshop with minimalist fuss /damage don’t worry about noise

Its not an endless list but poss may help someone
Cheers Graham

 

[jcassidy]

Sympathies to the OP.
As mentioned the job is to make your stuff a bit harder to steal than the next house.
Security controls are preventative, detective, and corrective. All 3 should be used to provide security in depth.

Preventative controls include fences, doors, locks, lights, and dogs. Bigger fences, stronger doors, better locks, and more lights (not necessarily BRIGHTER lights, which might not be possible in urban areas, but lots of nice low lighting to illuminate dark areas, with floodlights on specific spots).

Dectective controls include alarms, cameras, microphones, etc. But as mentioned, the police generally aren't interested in your video. Folks sometimes think alarms and cameras are preventative, and they may have that effect, but they have low effectiveness in that regard.

Corrective controls include smart water, engraving, inventory and insurance etc etc. Anything that helps you recover from your loss, either via compensation or physical recovery. You can get labels saying all your equipment is marked, and this may have a slight preventative effect (or maybe it's advertising that your have equipment worth marking...)

Defence in depth does not mean having a big fence, strong door, and a big lock, as all of those are just preventative and therefore only 1 layer of a security plan.

I will say that having being robbed, you are now at considerably greater risk of being robbed again. You need to put some time and effort into this now, before replacing your gear.

 

[planesleuth]

Come on Jacob it's time you chipped in here!

 

[RogerS]

....but don't try saying they had a firearm because they wiill not come out as that might be dangerous.

Nonsense. You will get a visit from an Armed Response team PDQ. Highly professional. DAMHIKT having been on the receiving end of a two year harassment campaign from the Farmer from ****....who thankfully has sold up.

And yes, the police were worse than useless in dealing with the FfH. It required intense self-control on my part not to go up to the farm with a pick-axe and anyone on here saying 'tut tut, taking the law into your own hands, tsk, tsk' have never had their wife crying herself to sleep after FfH's latest wheeze. So if you can get away with it, then go for it.

 

[Spectric]

Out of interest, how would you justify not describing these ‘psychos’ doling out beatings with no legal backing as anything other than violent criminals?

Because they are no different to people who catch rats for a living or remove other unwanted pest from society. In life there has to be reprocussions for criminal behavior otherwise we will just become a lawless society. This time the scumbag just broke into a workshop, what happens when he decides that he has a customer for your expensive car on the driveway and now needs to break into your home to get the keys !

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...me--avoid-violent-confrontation-burglars.html
Also having a letter box in a door is not a good idea, apart from the old game of fishing determined crooks will use a hook and tug it open.

 

[Filament]

Because they are no different to people who catch rats for a living or remove other unwanted pest from society. In life there has to be reprocussions for criminal behavior otherwise we will just become a lawless society. This time the scumbag just broke into a workshop, what happens when he decides that he has a customer for your expensive car on the driveway and now needs to break into your home to get the keys !

View attachment 171430

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...me--avoid-violent-confrontation-burglars.html

you’ve literally just described a lawless society.
Turns out I was right about your news source of choice…



To give you a bit of how newspapers like the DM spin things- if a source isn’t named or specified by title, it generally means it’s made up by the journo (as there’s no comeback).



You’ll see in this story the two named or titled police reps say nothing at all related to the title whereas the ‘vehicle crime specialist from the met’ aka ‘top cop’ from the headline is the one that the scary ‘don’t hide your keys’ story comes from



In similar vein, if a headline is followed by a question mark the answer to the question is nearly always ‘no’ (though the way the headline is written heavily implies the opposite)



(In fact, I’ve just discovered that this has a name Betteridge's law of headlines - Wikipedia)

 

[Cobbs]

Because they are no different to people who catch rats for a living or remove other unwanted pest from society. In life there has to be reprocussions for criminal behavior otherwise we will just become a lawless society. This time the scumbag just broke into a workshop, what happens when he decides that he has a customer for your expensive car on the driveway and now needs to break into your home to get the keys !

View attachment 171430

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...me--avoid-violent-confrontation-burglars.html
Also having a letter box in a door is not a good idea, apart from the old game of fishing determined crooks will use a hook and tug it open.

Isn't it time for your nap?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Tempting though it may be emotionally, I don't think a violent response is right even if the perpetrator can be reliably identified.

People get angry for all sorts of reasons - at what point is a violent response acceptable or become unreasonable - eg: does a racist or misogynistic comment justify a beating, does under £50 theft = no beating, more than £1000 = broken legs???

Bluntly theft happens. It may be distressing and upsetting. Make it more difficult for you to be the target. Make sure insurance is adequate (invoices, photos etc) and you are compliant.

The core duty of the police is to protect the public by detecting and preventing crime. They seem to be failing (at least in part). Improving their responsiveness may depend on:

• increasing budgets and police numbers
• better prioritisation to meet public expectations
• changes to work practices - paperwork and evidence required for prosecutions etc
• ensure focus on law and order, not role as default social workers

Some of us long for the Dixon of Dock Green era when a clip round the ear and some wise words would deliver justice. Others remember fondly the Sweeney (TV) where the good guys armed with nothing more than baseball bats brought the crims to heel! The world has moved on.

 

[jcassidy]

I train people in the this stuff all the time. Folks seriously overestimate their willingness to use violence, and at the same time, underestimate the consequences of violence, both for them and for others.

When we are talking about violence, you must answer only two questions, and everything else follows on from that.
They are;
1. What will I kill for?
2. What will I die for?

Because you can't engage in violence without running the risk of killing the other person, and you can't do that without the equal risk of being killed yourself. A fight is an exchange of violence (otherwise it's a beating...)

And here's a hint; most normal people will not kill or die for material possessions. Material possessions can be replaced; you can't.

In the end, having trained thousands of people, most will come up with the same answer; family. Maybe friends.

We then make the students consider scenarios like, a gang breaks into your house demanding your car keys. Some punk in a bar calls you bad names over a spilt drink. A junkie shows you a needl and wants your phone?
Fight or don't fight?
Why would you fight?
Will you accept the consequences of fighting? Death, injury, life long disability and/or or infection with a serious disease?

Now, when a client tells me that they are willing to do that for their car, well that is their decision. I might point out that doing so would, even in a best case scenario, almost certainly result in charges, and a lengthy legal process with an uncertain outcome. Vs an insurance claim. You decide which is the better outcome.

So that guy who let the thieves steal his car? He did exactly the right thing. He probably had a new car a week later. Better that then being pushed around in a wheelchair and peeing in a bag for the rest of his life, or leaving his kids fatherless and moneyless because his life insurance won't pay out because he was reckless. Or up on charges facing a decade in stir because he killed some worthless lowlife punk over a frikkin CAR!

 

[jcassidy]

1. What will I kill for?
2. What will I die for?

The power of knowing the answer to this is game changing.

You don't have to worry about how you will react in any given circumstance because you will always know where you stand.

Some punk badmouths my mum in the pub, looking for a reaction?? I don't know him and anyway, he's probably right about my mum, the '60's were wild, man! I'll just find a better pub.

Some guy wants my cheap Samsung something Tesco phone? His life is so dung he needs my phone that bad, he can have it as a gift. I want a new one anyway.

Someone if in my house? Someone is threatening my wife or kids? Someone is making me afraid? Then it's winning at any cost, and as I have a lot more at stake than any scumbag criminal, you'd f#%@@ing better believe I'm the one who's going home and I don't give a f##k where the other person ends up.

My secret power is you really, really don't want to make me afraid, because I will do anything, absolutely anything, to not be afraid, with complete lack of concern for concequences.