Woodworking DVD's

[wizer]

This was posted in hand tools but I thought I'd go for the wider audience

Mr Charlseworth has brought out another DVD. Priced £30

My first reaction to these prices is that they seem high for DVD's. But how much would it cost to go and be taught from him in person? I seem to collect these DVD's but will be resisting buy right now as I can't justify it.

Interestingly there is a guy in the states who makes extremely in depth DVD series on setting up P/T and the Tablesaw

His price is $99 which seems astronomical, but there's 10 dvd's in the set.

What do you think, do are these things worth their price tag? I think they probably are, am I wrong?

 

[superunknown]

I can kinda justify the $99 set that does not seem to bad, but the £30 price tag for a single DVD does seems a tad high to me.

I buy a lot if DVD's myself, mostly movies end TV series. I don't have any woodworking ones yet .

If you think how much it costs to make a Hollywood movie, cost of actors etc and when they get to DVD they are around £10 ish. I know its not true comparison, but its basically the same product.

 

[Karl]

Like I said in the other thread, I think £30 for a 3 hour tutorial by DC is good value. I will get it at some point this year (probably fathers day).

Cheers

Karl

 

[wizer]

I guess it comes down the difference between learning from a DVD and learning from a real life person. You could say that even if you went on one of DC's courses, you'd not be the only pupil. But then you have the privilege of asking questions. Further more you can pause and re-watch a DVD.

:-k

 

[Doug B]

The thing with a Hollywood movie is, it will have already made money before it goes to dvd & then it will be sold to millions of folks worldwide.
Where as mr C`s dvd will appeal to a very small market with which to recoup his costs & make a profit.
As to whether this type of dvd justifys the cost, i don`t know, having never bought one. Though if the information on these dvds is of use to you then £30 doesn`t sound excessive, it wouldn`t buy you much time on a course & you can`t rewind a course.

 

[Woody Alan]

If you think how much it costs to make a Hollywood movie, cost of actors etc and when they get to DVD they are around £10 ish.I know its not true comparison, but its basically the same product

I can't quite see that. They are both using the same medium a silver disc that costs pennies, there the similarity ends.
The scale of demand for a movie which is mostly watched in a passive "entertain me" manner as compared to a niche presentation of a specific subject by and to interested parties who will want to refer to certain parts several times differs them. I do however agree, that compared to a quality woodworking book which probably has higher production costs it does seem a little high. Then again David has been involved with this forum in the past replied to questions. I am sure if someone watched his DVD and then e-mailed a question to him he would reply personally making it an interactive experience, I doubt many actors would be so personally forthcoming.

Cheers Alan

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Also of course David's production runs are likely to be somewhat lower than for the latest alpha wave inducing opus, so unit costs are higher.

Incidentally, though it is a lot to hand over, I'd rate this amongst the most useful DVDs I've watched.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Doug B]

Also of course David's production runs are likely to be somewhat lower than for the latest alpha wave inducing opus, so unit costs are higher.

Incidentally, though it is a lot to hand over, I'd rate this amongst the most useful DVDs I've watched.

Cheers
Steve

Steve,
What aspects of woodwork does this dvd cover?

James B

 

[wizer]

I just want to say, unless it wasn't clear, that DC's previous DVD (which I do own) are very good and helped me understand, specifically the process involved in sharpening.

If it's a flip between DVD or Book, for me, it's DVD. But that's got something to do with my learning abilities and not really a comment about what's better in general.

In the case of Henrik's DVD above. $99 for 10 DVD's must be worth the money. But is 10 DVD's worth of video footage useful, I wonder? I'm more tempted to try one of his videos to find out if that amount of footage and detail is superior to that of DC's which is basically a cut down version of a class without the user interaction.

Ultimately, right now, there are other things I want before DVD's, so it goes on the wishlist. As someone said above, it'll probably turn up magically on father's day.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Ah, a subject close to my own heart.

First of all I should point out that I make and sell woodworking DVDs so my comments should be viewed against that background.

I own one of DC's and the info is first rate. The production values are good but not excellent, but then I don't think I've seen a DVD clip anywhere where the production values are comparable to what we are used to seeing on TV or at the cinema. The one I have of David's is essentially a filmed lecture. This is actually a very good way of creating a DVD, because
a) he knows his stuff, is used to delivering it and has a live audience with which to engage, and
b) the cost of filming and editing such a performance is very low.

I've gone for a much higher production cost model, where there are scores of scenes, more like what we are used to on the TV. It makes for a much more dymamic viewing experience (do I sound like a marketing manager?) but it makes the production costs much higher. My first two films took 10 months to make. I shall never see a return on that if I live to be 100.

I'm about to release my third, and this is much more low-budget. For a start I've filmed myself for the most part. I got Bob-the-cameraman in for a few scenes where pans and zooms were essentail, but for the most part it is chop-chop-chop. Also I'm not having them replicated, I'm burning them one at a time at home. It's slow, but the financial outlay is very low. Even so, somewhere down the line I have to pay for a couple of months' work as well as the ongoing costs. I'm really doing it to try to sell more 1s and 2s and because I think I've created something very good that other home woodies would like to share. I may be wrong, maybe I'll get slated and this is the end of the road. I hope not, but today I don't actually know.

I do know that it is ridiculously expensive to produce an hour of video. We are use to buying blockbusters in the local supermarket for 7.99, and the unthinking person will associate that with the cost of a WW DVD. The fact is that one will sell several millions in a year and the other will sell hundreds in several years. It's a totally different market.

I would love to sell my DVDs at a fiver a pop and sell a million, but it's not going to happen. I can sell them at a fiver a pop and subsidise all my customers to the tune of £100 a time, or I can sell them the current price and hope to get back some of my expenditure before I die.

David has an international reputation and lots of personal cache. It's all deserved and I'm green with envy. If he can command £30 a go then more power to his elbow, I say.

Personally I'm doing it because
a) I have to do something with my time in the absence of a proper job, and
b) it's there to be done. I have developed something excellent, it's inside me and has to come out, just like any creative artist. I'm sure most woodworkers feel the same about their creations. If it's there inside you, it has to be realized, doesn't it?

There, my 2p.
S

 

[Mr Ed]

I have 3 of Mr C's DVD's and I think they are excellent. I love reading woodworking books (mainly looking at the pictures) but what I realised when I watched these DVD's is that there is an additional dimension of understanding you gain when you can see the technique, not just read the description.

For example, how fast does he move the plane when using a shooting board? - in film its clear without anything being said, but in text it would be difficult to describe.

Personally I don't think this type of DVD is something you would watch over and over - I think I watched each of these twice and don't need to see them again to get any more out of them.

If you compare the DVD cost to the equivalent cost of tuition to get the same knowledge they are a snip. If you compare them to a copy of The Little Mermaid they may seem expensive, but thats not a fair comparison.

Cheers, Ed

 

[DaveL]

Well I don't have any of Mr C's DVD's but I have all of Steve's, I have watched them from end to end a couple of times, they are great in that you can see how things should be done and go back and look again and again.

I now use them like reference books, I know where to check something if I have not done it for a long time. I will admit that as I get older, (just had another birthday so this years is dealt with) I forget things and need to refresh the little grey cells more than I used to.

I don't think the price is over the top for the detail and information contained in them, but I was sad to hear that Steve will not break even on his outlay as I think he deserved to make a profit on such a good production.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Dave, thank you, that was very kind of you to say so.
S

 

[Wood Monkey]

I've just commented on this on another post in the handtools forum, so to repeat myself.

I've not seen the DVD, but having had the pleasure of attending one of David's courses I have no doubts that this DVD will be beautifully produced with exceptional attention to detail.

I did the tool tuning course and having read David's books cover to cover (which are also fantastic) there were things I didn't think I'd ever manage to replicate. But watching and listening to David as he demonstrated his techniques bought it to life and it just fell into place.

I'm sure it will be value for money.

Looks like I'm gonna have to check out Steve's material also.

 

[dunbarhamlin]

What aspects of woodwork does this dvd cover?

Heaps. Despite the length, this is much more concentrated than previous offerings.
In summary:
Difficult Grain - from back bevels to scrapers, with an overview of sharpening technique, covering both bench, low angle, block and scraper planes
Jointing
Frame and panel clean considering grain direction and going around corners (one of the many things Woodbloke covered on the course I did with him)
Long and end grain arris treatment (bevelling)
Shoulder plane fettling and use.

 

[woodbloke]

I've only seen one of MrC's DVD's (Philly lent me his) which is the one on shooting boards if I recollect. The content was clearly excellent...I just needed something to keep awake - Rob

 

[Vormulac]

I have all of Mr C's other DVDs and they are worth their weight in gold to a greenhorn like me, so this new one will be added to my collection at some point, along with Steve's too. Much as I love my WW books, there really is no substitute for seeing something done properly.

 

[bugbear]

If it's a flip between DVD or Book, for me, it's DVD. But that's got something to do with my learning abilities and not really a comment about what's better in general.

I think it's a difficult comparison. For some things, such as saw teeth jargon (rake, fleam, all that stuff), a book or webpage, with illustrations is the way to go. You can read slowly, or got back, or pause to think.

For other things, such as using a plough plane, describing a movement (in language) is REALLY hard; a simple video is much better.

Even then, a beginner watching an expert is likely not to "see" all the clever things the expert is doing, so commentary or explanation is vital.

However, in the age of self publishing, you can get 80% of the value of a well produced professional DVD from some of the made-for-love tutorials out there - Whilst it's not slickly edited, Alf's youtube video on using a plough plane is extremely valuable, for example.

The key thing here is that unlike a room of bored 14 year olds, the watchers of instructional videos WANT to learn - so (IMHO) there is little onus on the Video to be "interesting" or "slick", or even well edited.

BugBear

 

[wizer]

That sews it up for me. Totally agree BugBear.

 

[Doug B]

What aspects of woodwork does this dvd cover?

Heaps. Despite the length, this is much more concentrated than previous offerings.
In summary:
Difficult Grain - from back bevels to scrapers, with an overview of sharpening technique, covering both bench, low angle, block and scraper planes
Jointing
Frame and panel clean considering grain direction and going around corners (one of the many things Woodbloke covered on the course I did with him)
Long and end grain arris treatment (bevelling)
Shoulder plane fettling and use.

Thanks for that Steve.
From the sounds of it, it is well worth the money.