WoodRat versus the new Router Boss

[aldel]

This morning I noticed that Henry's remarks on the WoodRat forum have been edited again!!


I have now had time to fully investigate the proposed engineering of the Router Boss and although at first glance it may have some passing resemblance to the WoodRat, it is in fact different in every way. Only one fence, totally different I-beam, alloy plate, sliding rules, positive 1/2 degree adjustable stops, larger T-track and completely different clamping system. Dovetails are cut in a unique way and even the plunge assist bar is totally different to WoodRat's plunge bars.
The sliding bar will be available in three different lengths and with totally new bearings, it will be adjustable to remove any play. Front and rear dust collection and electronic scales for super accuracy if you want it.
So it seems to me that this is a unique design with operating methods that are not the same as on a WoodRat. In my view to call it a copy would be inaccurate and wish Lewis all success.

My worry is the likely cost of the Router Boss in the UK as quality gear is going to cost us dearly with all our taxes.

I think it is an opportunity for WoodRat to get their act together and drop the Pathfinder designs and fix the channel and carriage rattle. New alloy fences as standard. Listen to customer suggestions and ideas. Reduce not increase prices and then they would be really competitive.
Could they not swallow their pride and sell and distribute for Lewis?!

 

[jaymar]

First let me say I have never used a wood rat. I have read many posts on the subject though and get the feeling that the Rat is very much overpriced. If that is the case there seems to me no reason that a competitor will force down the price of both products.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

In calling ourselves British Woodworking I feel some responsibility to support British engineering and innovation. It is no surprise that there's a rival to the WoodRat, and in some ways even Martin Godfrey will welcome the competition, however painful it may feel now.

We are talking to an American colleague to get a look at the Router Boss, but I'd hope woodworkers can be as supportive of Martin's efforts as possible. We all live in a global society these days, and that's brought many of us huge benefits, but I think there is a place for a little positive discrimination to help local industries that face rivals from larger, lower-cost economies. Otherwise we get subsumed and lose our ability to fend for ourselves.

I'm the first to applaud a good idea from anywhere in the world. We've tested the Gifkins Dovetail Jig from Australia this issue and it is absolutely fantastic. But I know the struggles Martin has endured to get the WoodRat where it is now. I understand from my own experiences how frustrating it is to know that your product could be even better if there weren't quite so many challenges to overcome.

All the best to you Martin, and we will do what we can to support WoodRat, a product that has given so many woodworkers so much enjoyment over the years, and ok, a spot of heartache here and there.

Cheers

Nick

 

[SketchUp Guru]

...and get the feeling that the Rat is very much overpriced.

I guess I don't see the Rat as overpriced. Add up what you would need to spend to buy commercially available equipment to do variably spaced dovetails, sliding dovetails, mortises, tenons, dadoes, rebates, tongue and groove joinery, dowels, etc. And then consider the cost of the space to store and use them. A tool like the WoodRat and now the Router Boss doesn't look so bad.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Good on you Nick. I think Martin deserves to be supported. He has developed an excellent product. Hopefully having a little competition will give him the push to make it even better.

In calling ourselves British Woodworking I feel some responsibility to support British engineering and innovation. It is no surprise that there's a rival to the WoodRat, and in some ways even Martin Godfrey will welcome the competition, however painful it may feel now.

We are talking to an American colleague to get a look at the Router Boss, but I'd hope woodworkers can be as supportive of Martin's efforts as possible. We all live in a global society these days, and that's brought many of us huge benefits, but I think there is a place for a little positive discrimination to help local industries that face rivals from larger, lower-cost economies. Otherwise we get subsumed and lose our ability to fend for ourselves.

I'm the first to applaud a good idea from anywhere in the world. We've tested the Gifkins Dovetail Jig from Australia this issue and it is absolutely fantastic. But I know the struggles Martin has endured to get the WoodRat where it is now. I understand from my own experiences how frustrating it is to know that your product could be even better if there weren't quite so many challenges to overcome.

All the best to you Martin, and we will do what we can to support WoodRat, a product that has given so many woodworkers so much enjoyment over the years, and ok, a spot of heartache here and there.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Chris Knight]

I have had my rat since the year dot, It was quite expensive but I have had my money's worth from it. What disappointed me was the way the Martin Godfrey steadfastly refused to respond to the customers many legitimate criticisms and often excellent suggestions. In the early days at least he gave the impression that if you had a view that the Woodrat could be improved then you were just too thick to understand it properly.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I am seeing Martin in a couple of weeks' time and will ask him about the development of the WoodRat: what's gone well, what's gone not so well. If there's anything specific you'd like me to ask, just say so.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Anonymous]

I am seeing Martin in a couple of weeks' time and will ask him about the development of the WoodRat: what's gone well, what's gone not so well. If there's anything specific you'd like me to ask, just say so.

Cheers

Nick

New clamps - aluminium, not plastic (there was 0.5mm deflection on mine due to poor manufacturing tolerances, material choice and slop).
Improve the 'T' pieces that hold the clamps.
Lose the rattle and play in the carriage.
Replace the plastic strip that guides the carriage (I seem to recall that this might have been done on later models).
Sort out the horizontal drive which often slips if the wood being machined is tightish against the router support.
Add measuring scales for X and Y positioning.
Supply two stops on the cross traverse.
Add adjustable stops to both sides of the Y traverse.
Re-design the way it cuts dovetails, losing that button and using the aluminium cross guides.
Make the router plate out of thicker Phenolic or some more rigid material (less flex when moving the router in and out)
Lose that ridiculous brush and supply proper work holding jigs.
Drop the price by at least £100

Listen to the users and look at the plethora of additions and changes they have made to the Rat to make it work well.

Accept that not every user wants to work with bits of blutac and a pencil and some want to actually measure cuts using accurate scales and pointers on the machine.

The woodrat is potentially a good machine but it is only partially designed and finished in my (professional engineer) opinion and a lot of work was needed on mine before I could use it with any confidence in its accuracy.

 

[beech1948]

Tony,

A great list. I don't have a woodrat but have used one belonging to a colleague.

Your posting the list in a place thats not too visible to the designer of woodrat.

Maybe this whole tread should be copied to woodrat.com.

regards
alan

 

[TheTiddles]

yeah, competition, it's a bugger, keeps forcing you to develop new and better products, life would be much easier if you were the only manufacturer of a particular concept, maybe a router based jointing machine, for example. Then you could keep your product mostly the same for years and ask a really, really high price for it.

I have a little rat, the concept is excellent, it works great, I'm a master engineer with a virtually limitless supply of materials like engineering plastics and screws, I feel sorry for anyone who wanted it to work as well as it should straight out of the box.

Take the 'Rat, sprinkle a little Incra over it, season with some shims, sliding bearing surfaces and some better screws (christ, how little can you pay for screws?), beat the plastic bits to death, they are terrible quality, mix in some creative ideas with other people's experience and you're really getting there, looks like somebody has...

Aidan

 

[stewart]

I also am a 'rat owner - but not from an engineering background or profession. I've been on one of Woodrat's courses and found it very useful at seeing the potential of the machine. It seems there are quite a few 'rat owners on the forum who have had to make modifications and tried to pass their frustration at the 'rat's 'foibles'/'inaccuracies' onto the Godfreys without much success.

Perhaps this latest development would be a chance to collect all those modifications that people have made into one place? I remember some time ago reading Tony's post about his new fences but not having access to the materials he used was a bit frustrating for me.

Does anyone have details/pictures of modifications they have made that don't feature on aldel's excellent site that they could post?

 

[Anonymous]

Tony,

Your posting the list in a place thats not too visible to the designer of woodrat.

Maybe this whole tread should be copied to woodrat.com.

regards
alan

True Alan, but I am not a member of the woodrat forum and have no desire to join. The context of my post is that Nick Gibbs is talking to Martin and will hopefully pass on my list - martin does not take constructive criticism well though :lol:

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Does anyone have details/pictures of modifications they have made that don't feature on aldel's excellent site that they could post?

Stewart, I haven't built this one but I also don't think it is on Aldel's site yet. I designed this for someone who wanted to be able to clamp up larger panels for raising than the Rat's channel could handle moving. I drew it with the face at an angle because at the time I was drawing it, I was thinking of Martin's demonstration of panel raising with a straight bit. It could be built with the rail vertical or even adjustable.

 

[stewart]

Very nice, Dave - now that needs a long wall!

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Thank you. I don't have a wall that long but I think you should build this thing.

 

[stewart]

Fortunately I don't need a raised panel that size...yet

 

[SketchUp Guru]

Fortunately I don't need a raised panel that size...yet

That's no excuse! :lol:

 

[ivan]

If MG had produced his Woordat identical to the new all digital Routerboss, I wouldn't have bought one. Clever, yes, but I much prefer a non digital machine. I'm happy providing my own scales, but do consider the Nylon fences a mistake (so does MG, he's brought back Ali ones), and I do wish he'd paid a bit more attention to the linear "bearings". The original style ali-angle routerplate guide rails stiffen the plate adequately for me, but were an extra. Now they're just flat bar and to my mind not rigid enough.

I had a long talk with MG at a Shepton Mallet show last November(?) and he seemed to think his critics were all retired engineers who want to turn the woodrat into a milling machine, which it's not intended to be, (he said) I said if it were we probably couldn't afford it, and anyway I prefer to cut to a line when working wood, not a readout.

The new Ali fences are more versatile with T slots, and the new mitre box works, but isn't yet for sale.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

While I'm not a critic of the Rat, I did make several suggestions to Martin in the way of improving small aspects of the machine. My suggestions would have cost him very little and would have made the machine much more friendly to people who haven't got a lot of experience with it. I was rebuffed.

I still like the machine and use it regularly, even for milling plastic, but I wish Martin weren't so resistant to those who were trying to help make it better. Had he actually paid attention to us, he'd have realized we aren't all "retired engineers who want to turn the woodrat into a milling machine." There are plenty of plain old woodworkers who have had good ideas to make improvements. We were just ignored. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not a 'retired engineers who want to turn the woodrat into a milling machine.', I'm a working engineer (not machinist - there is a vast difference) and want the WoodRat to be what it should, and could, have been had Godfrey listened to its users over the years.

The concept is very good, the problems are all in the details.

As for using the Rat, I find that it gets used maybe once every couple of months (mainly because of the necessity t fit/make jigs each time I want to use it and one cannot cut DTs without taking the aluminium guides off) whereas the router table gets used once a week