Wooden hand planes suggestions?

[Ttrees]

If you do plan on grinding the middle with a flap disc, or whatever other method you use...
Check how thin the laminate of harder steel is first, incase its too thin to grind.
You can see this if you grind your primary bevel.

Tom

 

[Mr_Pea]

I've got an Ulmia wooden shoulder plane with adjustable mouth and even more unusual a cap iron like this

https://www.jimbodetools.com/products/1 ... fine-79507

I'd be happy to post some pics of it dis-assembled if of interest. It would be fairly easy to make a replica.

 

[woodbloke66]

Not sure about chipbreaker thing though; if you consider low angle Veritas planes, there's no chipbreaker but the mouth can be set very fine and they'll deal with the gnarliest grain by cutting with a very high effective pitch. Sorry to go OT a little my mentioning metal planes - Rob

It is worth bringing this up so that the following can said straight out: a fine mouth (with or without a higher AOA) is less effective at controlling tearout than the cap-iron effect.

Sorry, my three Veritas planes would beg to differ I gave up using planes with a cap iron over a decade ago and even then my go to bench plane was a Norris A1 panel plane.

I've got an Ulmia wooden shoulder plane with adjustable mouth and even more unusual a cap iron like this

I've got an Ulmia wooden smoothing plane (lignum sole) with an adjustable mouth - Rob

 

[ED65]

Not sure about chipbreaker thing though; if you consider low angle Veritas planes, there's no chipbreaker but the mouth can be set very fine and they'll deal with the gnarliest grain by cutting with a very high effective pitch. Sorry to go OT a little my mentioning metal planes - Rob

It is worth bringing this up so that the following can said straight out: a fine mouth (with or without a higher AOA) is less effective at controlling tearout than the cap-iron effect.

Sorry, my three Veritas planes would beg to differ I gave up using planes with a cap iron over a decade ago and even then my go to bench plane was a Norris A1 panel plane.

And many hundreds of thousands through numerous generations would beg to differ back at ya

Regardless of individual preferences about this the jury is in, the cap iron trumps a tight mouth. It's simply better at controlling it, and far less finicky to boot – where the wood is truly difficult try to take a shaving a hair too thick in any plane where the mouth is being used as the sole means of controlling tearout and you're instantly in clog city. On a double-iron plane you might notice it's a little harder to push and that's it.

And if someone wants to throw a couple of other variables into the mix, i.e. a cambered edge or a higher AOA, or both, a double-iron plane makes that far easier and often much cheaper to experiment with.

 

[woodbloke66]

Regardless of individual preferences about this the jury is in, the cap iron trumps a tight mouth. It's simply better at controlling it, and far less finicky to boot – where the wood is truly difficult try to take a shaving a hair too thick in any plane where the mouth is being used as the sole means of controlling tearout and you're instantly in clog city. On a double-iron plane you might notice it's a little harder to push and that's it.

And if someone wants to throw a couple of other variables into the mix, i.e. a cambered edge or a higher AOA, or both, a double-iron plane makes that far easier and often much cheaper to experiment with.

Sorry, but again my experience is at odds with yours...c'est la guerre! This fairly innocuous chunk of stuff in the infamous 'Wood from ****' :evil: :evil: ...

...that did the rounds on UKW a few years ago. I don't know what it is but some research online led me to believe that it's Indian Laurel; it might not be but it is the most evil timber I've ever come across and almost impossible to plane without tearing huge chunks out of it. Several UKW members who came to my 'shop a few years ago had exactly the same experience. It's simply awful!

Undaunted, I took it down to the Spring Show at Yandles and made my way over the LN stand where Deneb Puchalski was in full flow demonstrating the full range of LN hand planes. At a suitable moment, I asked him if he would mind having a go at planing the WfH as it was difficult stuff.
Bear in mind that he had ALL the LN planes set out in front of him, but he immediately reached for the LN No.62 Low Angle Jack, whereupon he proceeded to hone the blade at some un-Godly angle, set a really righty-tighty mouth and then, over the course of a few minutes planed the WfH dead smooth, albeit with uber fine shavings....anything else and it would have ripped out!
After this very impressive demo, I asked why he went for the LN low angle jack and his reply, as far as I recollect (it was some years ago) was that ''a low angle plane the only plane that will do the job'' He also mentioned that it wasn't the worst timber that he'd ever come across, but it wasn't far off :lol:

To be fair, I also sent the WfH to Matt Platt at Workshop Heaven and he managed to tame it....

...with Clifton 4.5, York pitch frog and a back bevel on the cutter, so it was almost scraping rather than cutting. He sent it back to me with a coat of polish on the planed side. Interestingly, when I sent him the sample it was TWICE as thick as shown in the picture, so it took him around 5 or 6mm before he finally cracked it. Somewhere floating around on UToob there's a video.

Also, some years ago I did a little experiment with a pal's very expensive Sauer & Steiner infill smoother and compared it against my very 'umble Veritas LA jack. I honed and set both planes but the S&S infill couldn't smooth some birds eye maple without tear out (IIRC...again, some years ago); however the LA jack sailed through it.

My experience (yours is obviously different )over a couple of decades taught me that a low angle blade, correctly sharpened and set up in the plane with a very tight mouth is better on difficult grain than a plane with a conventional blade and cap iron, but as always, the truth is a devious master (particularly apt at the moment as I'm reading Ben MacIntire's account of Kim Philby :shock: ) and what suits one won't do for another - Rob

 

[toolsntat]

Not sure if you can see his feed on Instagram but Richard Arnold has been making some remarkable planes, often from old wooden jointers.
https://www.instagram.com/arnold_richard/?hl=en
You'll need to scroll down the feed but worth the effort 8)
Cheers Andy

 

[Ttrees]

I used to write WFH on a good lot of timber before I learned how to set the cap iron correctly. :lol:
I even bought a no.3 and a scraper plane at the time, which sit unused now.
Strange thing was in the back of my mind I knew it could be done, as I had just started copping on to what David Weaver was on about :roll:
And to think I was going to go out and buy a LAJ at one stage :shock:

Tom

 

[ED65]

Sorry, but again my experience is at odds with yours...c'est la guerre!

Just to emphasise this for you and any other gentle readers, it's not at all my experience I'm going on here (although what I've seen firsthand fully supports it).

I don't want to go on about this too much because we're way out on a tangent the OP might not welcome so I'll keep my reply brief, ish.

This fairly innocuous chunk of stuff in the infamous 'Wood from ****' :evil: :evil: ...

Aha, so yours was that one. I remember reading the tale in the archives, I am especially fond of the bit about it coming back successfully smoothed but half the thickness :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bear in mind that he had ALL the LN planes set out in front of him, but he immediately reached for the LN No.62 Low Angle Jack, whereupon he proceeded to hone the blade at some un-Godly angle, set a really righty-tighty mouth and then, over the course of a few minutes planed the WfH dead smooth, albeit with uber fine shavings....

So he cheated then? :wink: With all due respect, Deneb is not an expert on the use of the cap iron so this is exactly what I would expect him to do first. It's one reason of a few that L-N brought out their range of BU planes in the first place!

I have a wee bit of experience with this same strategy and to cut a long story short in every case I could get better results – full disclosure: not always flawless, but noticeably better – with the no. 4 I was using at the time as my super-smoother, and it wasn't anything special; many here wouldn't pollute their benches with the brand by their own admission. That's how I proved the point to myself, although I had reasons to be suspicious from various personal observations (mouth size on coffin smoothers being a key one) along with much reading of other people's experiences and comparative testing which were overwhelmingly convincing.

If we get the chance to revisit this in a future thread on the subject I'll post one of the most telling things I've read about it, which you in particular might find interesting given your previous preference for a Norris. I presume I don't need to use a spoiler alert to say it supports what I'm saying

 

[woodbloke66]

Fair enoughski, your viewpoint is as valid as mine and I won't be discussing this topic any time soon; consider it closed - Rob

 

[M_Chavez]

Great idea about the old jointers!
It is hard not to get sidetracked into making planes! Got to keep reminding myself that they are just tools to get other jobs done.
First plane is still a WIP, but here's a wee mallet for blade adjustment that I've turned at the weekend.

Rob, thank you for the demo of the BU plane. I have a QS LA BU jack in my arsenal and have been using it for the past two years.
That will be the first plane to get replaced by the woodies
Every time I used it, it has done a great job, but it's the long and painful fiddling about with swapping the blades, getting the blade and the mouth right that puts me off using it - I don't think it justifies its price (and that's QS, not LV prices I'm talking about!).

...For that piece of wood from **** I'd dimension with a bandsaw and then use a scraper #-o

 

[M_Chavez]

Thanks for all the advice - first plane is now complete, although I might have left the central insert too wide. Purpleheart body on lignum sole.
This stuff is definitely addictive.

What is the traditional finish for hand planes? I remember reading that it is shellac (?!) - is that to lock in the moisture and minimise wood movement with humidity changes?
Just one coat of tung oil applied so far.

 

[AndyT]

Shellac was only on high end planes such as some ploughs. Ordinary beech planes were sold bare and finished with linseed oil by their users.

 

[M_Chavez]

Thanks. Is there any actual advantage to putting a few coats of shellac or was it just a sales trick?

 

[AndyT]

I think the advantage was that it keeps the plane looking clean and new. Linseed oil can go very dark over the years.

 

[thetyreman]

nice work, plane looks great, I'm wondering if pearwood is suitable for a nice smoother? got plans to make a 55 degree pitch one for figured and very difficult woods, not sure if it's hard enough or if it's worth attaching a sole from even harder wood?

 

[Mr_Pea]

No experience of Pear, do Apple handled Disston saws count ?

Aesthetically speaking very similar to Apple, bit of a yawn fest imvho. Having said that so is Beech unless its quarter sawn.

Harder than Beech so should be fine.

Janka Hardness: 1,450 lbf for Beech and 1,660 lbf for Pear

https://www.wood-database.com/pear/
https://www.wood-database.com/european-beech/

 

[M_Chavez]

Thanks!

I have a hornbeam-soled Pinie and dragging it over tough hardwoods does seem to damage the sole a fair bit. Hornbeam Janka is 1,630 per database.

I'd use purpleheart for soles - it's cheap and cheerful. Should be called purple-hard really.

The new plane has (very quickly) become my favourite - unless I discover something wrong with it, I am now thinking of re-making it in cocobolo for my birthday when it comes.

 

[M_Chavez]

Here's another plane question: what is the usual hardness of a chipbreaker? I.e. would a strip of bright mild steel be hard enough to be used as a chip breaker?

Thanks.

 

[AndyT]

Here's another plane question: what is the usual hardness of a chipbreaker? I.e. would a strip of bright mild steel be hard enough to be used as a chip breaker?

Thanks.

Yes.

 

[M_Chavez]

Here's the new addition to the collection - a wee thumb plane. Perhaps, not as pretty as the first one, but it fits my hand well and there's enough room for adjusting the blade and the wedge.