Wobbly as a Weeble

[PerranOak]

OK, I've tried! I have one of those little chisel sharpening guides and can, at times, produce a reasonable edge.

However, I REALLY need to sharpen plane blades now and also my more expensive chisels.

For this I need a "better" guide, I think. I don't want to use any kind of machine as I do want to learn to do it by hand.

I've looked at the Veritas guides that are wider and so, I guess, less prone to my infuriating tendency to wobble. This would be a disater on a plane blade!

Which would you recommend for a starter who does want to become proficient ... at some point!

Ta.

 

[Calpol]

I bought the Veritas at college and find it's very good indeed! Also helps figure out the best cutting angle for various timbers which is useful...

 

[newt]

Eclipse guide about a fiver works a treat.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Rob (Woodbloke) reckons I have a problem in that I have several honing guides Anyway, the bottom line is that no single guide is best for everything IMHO.

For plane blades I now use the Veritas Mk2. I particularly like the way you can alter the roller by 1 or 2 degrees to get a microbevel.

For chisels I like the new Trend guide http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/D ... _set_.html

This works similar to the modified Eclipse in that the chisel is registered in the guide from the flat side. It differs from the Eclipse in that it has a wide roller (which I like for chisels and multiplane blades).

Here's my modified Eclipse

And here's an unmodified one so you can get the idea

I also have the Veritas Mk1 for blades that are difficult to hold in other guides (ie ones that don't have straight sides).

All very confusing really :?

Cheers :wink:



Paul

 

[PerranOak]

Yes, it's the eclipse that I have - all too wobbly for me. It seems that it is poorly engineered and the chisel never sits flat ... what with that and my wobble!!!

Ta for the advice and pics, I'll have a look.

Of course, then I'll have the "what type of stone" trauma!

 

[Karl]

I suspect that it is technique that is at fault here.

When sharpening a blade with the eclips guide, I have both thumbs behind the wheel and supporting under the blade, with both index fingers extended along the length of the blade giving a downforce at the edge of the blade.

Hope that makes sense - maybe a picture really does say a thousand words..... :roll:

Cheers

Karl

 

[Jeremys]

I have an eclipse which is fine, but IMO they do feel bit crude... I went for the Richard Kell #2 and can recommend it highly...Its a beautifully made bit of kit (proper engineering 8)), no wobble (supported either side of the blade) and is great with the scary sharp method...

http://workshopheaven.com/cgi-bin/c...g+Guides&catstr=HOME:Sharpening:Honing+Guides

I've been using it for a few months now and im very happy with it...much quicker than the tormek...

 

[PerranOak]

I have an eclipse which is fine, but IMO they do feel bit crude... I went for the Richard Kell #2 and can recommend it highly...Its a beautifully made bit of kit (proper engineering 8)), no wobble (supported either side of the blade) and is great with the scary sharp method...

I've been using it for a few months now and im very happy with it...much quicker than the tormek...

No wobble but doesn't it reference to the blade itself to create the proper angle?

I'm not sure I really understand that! :duno:

 

[PerranOak]

I suspect that it is technique that is at fault here.

When sharpening a blade with the eclips guide, I have both thumbs behind the wheel and supporting under the blade, with both index fingers extended along the length of the blade giving a downforce at the edge of the blade.
Karl

I must be a bit of a dylan 'cause it STILL goes off-square even when I try REALLY hard.

 

[PerranOak]

Eclipse guide about a fiver works a treat.

Newt, I think it's your skill that makes it sing!

 

[Ironballs]

I'm a Veritas fan, even I can get blades that are ridiculously sharp. Plus I since bought the camber roller for plane blades, skew blade attachment and small blade holder. I think it's brilliant - as you'd expect from Veritas

 

[wizer]

get the veritas.

 

[matt]

I use the Eclipse and cannot work out how you can make it wobble if you're holding/using it correctly (as Ironballs described)?

 

[woodbloke]

Rob (Woodbloke) reckons I have a problem in that I have several honing guides

Here's my modified Eclipse

And here's an unmodified one so you can get the idea

Cheers :wink:


Paul

I have the same sort of Eclipse guide as Paul and it's been modified in the same way so that it will hold almost any plane blade (but not a wide scraper blade) and chisel. They're easy to use but need the knack...pressure is applied only at the blade tip on the stone with your index fingers and not directly over the wheel or else it will rock.

And yes, Paul does have a problem :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Another couple of pictures to illustrate one of the situations where the side-clamping Eclipse-style guide is not suitable. Here's the blade from the Veritas skew rebate plane

It has to be held in the guide at an angle because of the skew, like this

Other blades for which the side-clamping guide might be unsuitable are some rebate plane blades and some shoulder plane blades because they have stepped sides. However, for normal plane and chisel blades, the side-clamping system is good.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[PaulO]

I don't want to use any kind of machine as I do want to learn to do it by hand.

How are you going to hollow grind? Sharpening without a hollow grind is possible, but takes a lot longer. With a shallow hollow grind you are only sharpening the very tip of the blade, which after a fresh grind takes 1 or 2 strokes on a coarse/medium (800) stone, then four on a fine stone (at a slightly higher angle). The next sharpening might take 2 or 3 strokes on the 800. After about six or seven sharpenings I am up to over ten strokes on the coarse and it is time to hollow grind again.

Most chisels come out of the box with a flat bevel, to sharpen this you are removing a large amount of metal, and will take a long time on any type of stone/diamond/abrasive sheet.

You can get hand powered grinders if you have an aversion to power tools.

FWIW I use a Veritas mk2 for small chisels (1/4 and less) and an eclipse for everything else (that fits). I sharpen spokeshave blades by hand, as I haven't made a fixture to use a honing guide.

 

[PerranOak]

I never thought of that.

As I've only just started, it's not been a problem yet but I see your point.

Hmm.

 

[PerranOak]

I use the Eclipse and cannot work out how you can make it wobble if you're holding/using it correctly (as Ironballs described)?

Me neither!

I seem to be doing it right and, to be fair, I am getting better but it never works!

I guess it's not so much of a wobble but a permanent bias - my efforts are always skewed the same way no matter what. Guess I'm naturally lop-sided(!)

 

[matt]

You sure the stone is flat? Or... are you applying more pressure on one side rather than an actual wobble? In the case of the latter you could try putting one finger on top of the other in the centre of the blade rather than one each side. Also... take note of your body position in relation to the bench on which you are sharpening. Your arms should be doing the work and your body still, otherwise you risk the momentum of your body movement transferring in to the sharpening pressure/movement. Make sure the work is high enough for your elbows to be bent at the furthest reach and stand square to the work.

 

[TrimTheKing]

I use the Eclipse and cannot work out how you can make it wobble if you're holding/using it correctly (as Ironballs described)?

Me neither!

I seem to be doing it right and, to be fair, I am getting better but it never works!

I guess it's not so much of a wobble but a permanent bias - my efforts are always skewed the same way no matter what. Guess I'm naturally lop-sided(!)

I suggest you get the David Charlesworth DVD on sharpening.

I had never even seen a honing guide before I bought this DVD, and after watching the DVD, buying an eclipse and some stones, 10 minuites practice following the DVD and I get the sharpest edges I could hope for, that I can shave both arm and face with, and no wobble. I think it is just down to technique, and the DVD shows you exactly how to get the correct technique.

HTH