WIP — Traditional Screw Veneer Press

[marcus]

I'm going to heat the large plates with a paraffin heater as recommended by Patrick Edwards http://wpatrickedwards.blogspot.co.uk, who seems to know what he's doing! He puts the plates on saw horses puts the heater under them and boxes it in with scraps. Haven't tried it yet though so it's a bit of a step into the unknown.... They need to be quite hot with this method and I don't think a blanket would be powerful enough.

I like hammer veneering, for me the problem is that I'm often using thick veneers, and it gets quite tricky with a hammer once you get over 1mm thick or so. Also for more complicated patterns it's good to be able to assemble the pieces beforehand and put the whole lot into the press together rather than cutting and fitting the veneers in situ....

 

[woodaxed]

interesting post although i know nothing about veneering was enjoyable to read with clear pics, I ask thought using paraffin heaters
doesnt sound to safe as i know they give off a lot of water vapour

 

[giantbeat]

good lord that is a beautiful piece of kit, so well done!!

i have a decent home made veneer cold press we made for making veneer ply laminations for my day job, its no where near as nice as yours & i never found a source for those press handles, we used thread bar with nuts welded to the top using driver guns to screw them down... i will try and dig out some pictures, its been used most weeks for just over 8 years now

once again, that is an amazing bit of tooling you have made.

 

[otisluxton]

Sorry it's been a while, I got distracted by other jobs and had to solve a few teething problems but have now finished it!

Hi Marcus - where did you manage to get your press screws? I have searched high and low for them and cannot seem to find them anywhere but the US - any advice?

Looks great,
Thanks, Otis.

 

[dazzer]

Sorry it's been a while, I got distracted by other jobs and had to solve a few teething problems but have now finished it!

Hi Marcus - where did you manage to get your press screws? I have searched high and low for them and cannot seem to find them anywhere but the US - any advice?

Looks great,
Thanks, Otis.

Hi Otis

I had the same problem as you last year when I was looking to buy some veneer press screws - I couldn't find them anywhere or if I did they were really expensive

I then found some on Amazon - you can find them here at just over £10 ($14:20) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD353/ref=cm_cr_rev_prod_title

I didn't know what to expect as I thought they wouldn't be up to the job but I am really pleased as the press screws are nicely made and quite sturdy

I bought 4 of them and the postage was really cheap for the 4.

I hope this helps you or anyone else who needs some

All the best
Dave

 

[otisluxton]

Hi Dave,

Thanks alot for the link! Ive just ordered one, so will let you know what I think when i've got it though. I cannot believe there is absolutely no one importing these in to the U.K. I might even make a cider press now I know theyr'e so cheap! The one i've ordered is to make a guitar side bending machine - Looks like the ones ive looked at are using almost identical screws - can't see how they are charging almost £400 for one now I know the press screws are fairly cheap.

Thanks for the help,
Otis.

 

[marcus]

Highland woodworking in the US sell the 12" Jorgensen ones, that are bigger than the ebay ones (which are 12" overall as opposed to 12" shaft), and I think a bit nicer to wind up and down as there is no second handle to get in the way. There are also 18" ones available, or 9".

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/jorg ... rew12.aspx

If you're shopping around then 'Jorgensen press screw' is a good search term.

Obviously also have to pay shipping, plus uk import tax and VAT. Depends on how much you order but for me I think it worked out at about £25 per screw.

Agree it's strange no one stocks these in the UK.

 

[dazzer]

Hi Dave,

Thanks alot for the link! Ive just ordered one, so will let you know what I think when i've got it though. I cannot believe there is absolutely no one importing these in to the U.K. I might even make a cider press now I know theyr'e so cheap! The one i've ordered is to make a guitar side bending machine - Looks like the ones ive looked at are using almost identical screws - can't see how they are charging almost £400 for one now I know the press screws are fairly cheap.

Thanks for the help,
Otis.

Glad to help Otis

Its nice to see a fellow Luthier
I bought mine for guitar side bending machine as well
Do you just build acoustics/classical or do you build electric's as well?
If you don't mind me asking are you building anything at the moment?

All the best
Dave

 

[bugbear]

The sockets for the press screws are driven into 1 1/8" holes with a mallet and block of wood. This feels a bit 'edgy' as they are not that substantial and take a lot of force to drive in. I was worried one might break, but they were fine.

Too late now, but I'd have used a piece of threaded rod (fine enough to go straight through) and pulled them through from the far side (using suitable washers to spread the load).

Bugbear

 

[marcus]

Too late now, but I'd have used a piece of threaded rod (fine enough to go straight through) and pulled them through from the far side (using suitable washers to spread the load).

Not a bad idea, though I was probably being over-parnoid — I think they're stronger than they look, and driving them in was the approach suggested on the stickers....

 

[otisluxton]

Glad to help Otis

Its nice to see a fellow Luthier
I bought mine for guitar side bending machine as well
Do you just build acoustics/classical or do you build electric's as well?
If you don't mind me asking are you building anything at the moment?

All the best
Dave

Ah! Maybe that's the only use for the things apart from actually making veneer presses! - Im totally fed up with using bending irons - they're too inconsistent with their results and simply takes too much time for something that a machine can do whilst I can be doing something more enjoyable! What did you use for your heat lamp bulbs if you don't mind me asking? I've seen these ceramic bulbs that just produce heat and no light which are around 150-250w and was thinking of trying them first? Wondered if you could suggest anything there? Or do you use heat blankets? (another thing that I would have to order from the states)

Im only building acoustic instruments at the moment - mostly guitars and I'm big in to Parlour guitars at the moment so a lot of them. Right now im building a classical parlour guitar pretty much in the style of a Louis Panormo, but with slightly modified bracing - Im using all British, native woods, so there's a lot of experimentation going on with thicknesses and bracing, though its not my first native-wood guitar so its not all new to me.

How about yourself? I would be interested to hear what you build, and any other projects you are working on? Also, any tips on the side bending machine!

Thanks,
Otis.

 

[dazzer]

Glad to help Otis

Its nice to see a fellow Luthier
I bought mine for guitar side bending machine as well
Do you just build acoustics/classical or do you build electric's as well?
If you don't mind me asking are you building anything at the moment?

All the best
Dave

Ah! Maybe that's the only use for the things apart from actually making veneer presses! - Im totally fed up with using bending irons - they're too inconsistent with their results and simply takes too much time for something that a machine can do whilst I can be doing something more enjoyable! What did you use for your heat lamp bulbs if you don't mind me asking? I've seen these ceramic bulbs that just produce heat and no light which are around 150-250w and was thinking of trying them first? Wondered if you could suggest anything there? Or do you use heat blankets? (another thing that I would have to order from the states)

Im only building acoustic instruments at the moment - mostly guitars and I'm big in to Parlour guitars at the moment so a lot of them. Right now im building a classical parlour guitar pretty much in the style of a Louis Panormo, but with slightly modified bracing - Im using all British, native woods, so there's a lot of experimentation going on with thicknesses and bracing, though its not my first native-wood guitar so its not all new to me.

How about yourself? I would be interested to hear what you build, and any other projects you are working on? Also, any tips on the side bending machine!

Thanks,
Otis.

Hi Otis
Nice to hear back from you

I build acoustics and at the moment I'm building a couple based on the Taylor Grand Auditorium. I have a bending iron which is big enough for Chello's and is ok for touching up sides off the side bender or if I fancy just doing it by hand as I find it relaxing sometimes to do the sides if I'm not in a rush The side bender I use is with heat blankets. The blankets I bought from a Chinese company which made the to order. I ordered a 36" x 6" 1050watt blanket a 6" x 6" blanket for doing cutaways. The two blankets have built in Thermocouples. The two blankets cost me £90 delivered and were the best value from any supplier I will send you their details through PM

The side bender I have has two veneer screw's one for the waist and another for cutaway!

I've a few more builds to get going soon but need to get these done

All the best Dave

 

[Eric The Viking]

Thank you so much, Marcus, for taking the extra time to write this up. It's been really interesting (just read through it over breakfast!). As a real amateur/novice, I've been wondering about veneering - started reading up about techniques some years ago. It's great to see such a practical design, so well executed.

If I might make a comment, and ask a question:

I think you're dead right about paraffin heating over electric - those plates are aluminium - electric blankets are notorious for fraying in use and ageing, and to heat a plate you'd be running them much hotter than normal. You might boil them up in a vertical tank. That arrangement might let you do several at once, but they'd probably need small holes drilled near an edge so you could dangle them in the water and pull them out. If they're close to boiling they'd dry in seconds in normal air (at the expense of cooling slightly).

The other advantage is that the tank might double as a steam source for steam bending. I was wondering how to heat it - possibly the sort of immersion heater used in domestic hot water tanks - long and thin and with a thermostat and a handy, easily sealed flange. If you're going for boiling point though, it would naturally be self-limiting. It couldn't overheat, but it could boil dry!

Do you know what temperature you need - is 95C enough?

[Later] I've just remembered, incidentally, that RS Components amongst others used to sell stick-on thermometers for checking things like heatsink temperatures in equipment. They come in a range of ranges(!), and some are single-use (they record the all-time maximum reached), but I think some are like normal thermometers and go down as well as up. If you're boiling them you wouldn't need one on every panel, just on a visible edge.[/later]

My question is a real novice one: I noted your neat, CNC-drilled grid of holes. Do you just run long bolts or studding through to hold things down? I assume this is for glue-ups, rather than veneering though.

Thanks once again for posting,

E.

PS: on Press Screws: I see the point about those Amazon twin handled ones being a nuisance. I'm guessing the intention is that you can use a batten for extra leverage, but you might just grind the handle off one side, if it really gets in the way. If you kept the arm it's attached to, you'd keep it almost in balance, so it wouldn't be too bad.

 

[custard]

Impressive job, and lots of food for thought. Thanks for posting!

 

[marcus]

Thanks Custard!

Eric, Not a bad idea re hot water, though not sure I'd want a tank of boiling water that big in the workshop. Also it still leaves the question of how to heat the water!

I usually heat the plates to 120 degrees in the oven (I've been doing a load this week as it happens but small enough to be able to use my old method of heating several small plates, so still not used the big plates). If they are 120 you have plenty of time to faff around getting everything place and after that there's still enough heat left to get through 2 or 3 mm of veneer.... I have a new plan for heating the big plates but not sure if it will work yet so watch this space!

The idea of the small holes on the back is that they can be used to attach all sorts of clamps, jigs and templates — I can just push a few steel pins through holes in the jigs that match the holes in the table. That's the idea anyway. Should work I hope, but I haven't tried it yet as I haven't got round to sorting out the pins....

 

[beech1948]

Can't see any pictures

Al

 

[rspsteve]

me neither , would be nice too.

 

[marcus]

I moved the pictures when I was re-doing my website, will try to get them back up soon