I have replaced a number of UPVC windows with wood and sealed units. Also made a few windows from wood-i haven't ever done this before but so far so good. I need to make a very large one which includes a casement window. I have been using America redwood but the quality of what I am being offered from well know building suppliers isn't any good-too many knots. I am in Somerset, nr Bath. Does anyone know a reasonably priced wood merchant which sells the same (redwood) or Douglas Fir. Any advice appreciated.
Window wood advice
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Douglas Fir is a really good selection for windows. Good lengths clear of knots or defects with straight grain that is rot resistant and takes paint well. Only slight downside is that is has a tendency to splinter.
Yes, before I attempted such things myself I had some made and am pretty sure they were d/fir. As you say no knots. The ones I have made to date using Redwood from TP worked out fine and wood was cheap and fine but now what they have is inferior.
I also like DF flooring...looks very clean and bright and more pleasing to oak...in my opinion. Have been full on all day so will get back re D F in Wales...thanks
I also like DF flooring...looks very clean and bright and more pleasing to oak...in my opinion. Have been full on all day so will get back re D F in Wales...thanks
Timbersource are not a million miles away and should have what you need
https://www.timbersource.co.uk
https://www.timbersource.co.uk
If you are making windows from scratch, why not use accoya. Totally stable and resistant to moisture and insects. I've just made a houseful of sash windows and french doors. Buy it rough sawn from e.g. lathams - even rough sawn is nice and straight, and it doesn't take much finishing. Machines beautifully, but it is quite brittle so you have to watch out for spelch. Yes, it's quite expensive, but in the grand scheme of things it'll not be so much compared to say douglas fir. I wouldn't use common redwood, it just moves about too much IMHO.
Well, the accoya I got from lathams was shake free, and the sash windows I have made with quite tight tolerances haven't moved a fraction in over a year winter/summer, and as many of the top manufacturers of sash windows use accoya, I think it's good enough. I have found it really nice to work with.
Doug71
Established Member
It was me who had the Accoya with the shakes in.
It was a large front door that I made and both stiles (both from the same piece of Accoya) developed shakes as soon as it was out in the sun. I spoke with the Accoya rep and he said sometimes they can get it wrong, not really sure what he meant by that, maybe that piece wasn't pickled for long enough!
I checked back on the door last week and most of the shakes have closed up despite the sunny weather, the ones that are left should be okay after another coat of paint.
It has knocked my confidence in Accoya a bit but I am still using it.
Somebody mentioned redwood moving around too much, you should see my driveway gates made out of unsorted redwood. The t & g boarding that was tight a few months ago now has 5 mm gaps between it.
It was a large front door that I made and both stiles (both from the same piece of Accoya) developed shakes as soon as it was out in the sun. I spoke with the Accoya rep and he said sometimes they can get it wrong, not really sure what he meant by that, maybe that piece wasn't pickled for long enough!
I checked back on the door last week and most of the shakes have closed up despite the sunny weather, the ones that are left should be okay after another coat of paint.
It has knocked my confidence in Accoya a bit but I am still using it.
Somebody mentioned redwood moving around too much, you should see my driveway gates made out of unsorted redwood. The t & g boarding that was tight a few months ago now has 5 mm gaps between it.
I guess, even though its modified, it's still timber and you get occasional flaws. I've literally just finished a pair of french doors, so we'll see how we go as the timber sections are obviously much larger that windows. Using it for the first time for a house full of sash windows, I've had to convert rough sawn to intricate profiles, and it has been a huge benefit that the rough sawn has been virtually straight. I only have one of screwfixes el cheapo thicknessers, which I have modified somewhat, and it's done a sterling job! All the sections have been machined up on a little trend craftpro 3 router table.
I have to say, for any future external joinery projects, accoya is my first choice (as long as its painted - it really does look c**P - greyish with chemical stains).
I have to say, for any future external joinery projects, accoya is my first choice (as long as its painted - it really does look c**P - greyish with chemical stains).
Interesting...I am not a carpenter...hence advice...though have made some windows for our house that I am renovating.
I don't have a thicknesser but what's the one you got from Screwfix? Most of my tools are from there and generally good-table saw/sliding mitre saw etc. I contacted Lathams in Bristol and they sell t 100x50mm rough at 10.50 per metre and are getting a delivery in on Friday...
I can go over to Frome and see what the planed Douglas Fir is like...same price and wouldn't require a thicknesser.
Other issue is window is approx 2 metres (l)x 1.2(h)Its replacing UPVC beast. It is hard to fit so am thinking of making in 2 parts-one is single unit containing sealed unit. Then window to one side...does that sound nuts? Or have opening in a three panel window may look more balanced...The casement window is the one that I will need time on but have time on my hands as its summer..
I don't have a thicknesser but what's the one you got from Screwfix? Most of my tools are from there and generally good-table saw/sliding mitre saw etc. I contacted Lathams in Bristol and they sell t 100x50mm rough at 10.50 per metre and are getting a delivery in on Friday...
I can go over to Frome and see what the planed Douglas Fir is like...same price and wouldn't require a thicknesser.
Other issue is window is approx 2 metres (l)x 1.2(h)Its replacing UPVC beast. It is hard to fit so am thinking of making in 2 parts-one is single unit containing sealed unit. Then window to one side...does that sound nuts? Or have opening in a three panel window may look more balanced...The casement window is the one that I will need time on but have time on my hands as its summer..
This one https://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb579 ... 230v/15774
As a planer it's pretty c**p, but I extended the thicknesser bed by bolting in a length of 18mm ply, removed the stupid plastic chip deflector and disabled the safety interlock (!!!), then made a plywood guard so the chips could just spit out - it makes loads and I didn't have a vacuum capable of handling the chip output!!
However, it has now processed a grand and half's worth of accoya into nicely PAR stock without changing a belt or blade.
I'd make your window in one piece. The largest sash window I have just made is around 2m H x 1.2m W
Having said all that, making a decent window takes planning. If you are using DG units, you also need to be thinking about draught seals, which are easily bought, but require planning in your sections. (no point having DG if your casements have gaps!) Similarly, how will you install DG units? I used dry glazing clips from reddiseals, and internal beads - everything is available, but much of the challenge is drawing up your sections. How will you machine them? It'll be a challenge IMHO without a router table, but certainly do-able, even with hand tools if you take your time. (but having just made a house full of windows, even with a domino for joints, decent router table, all the cutters for slotting out for seals, scribed joints etc, it's a work-out!)
For one window that is going to comply with building regs, the tools and/or time required are not insignificant. You need to work to quite tight tolerances. Anally I attempted to work to 0.2mm, and can fairly honestly say I achieved +/- 0.5mm in all my dimensions. (there is a certain satisfaction when you lay the laser measure over a large window frame, and get the same measurements top/bottom side/side to the mm)
But, if you can do it, you can make something as good or better than commercial products, and to a style and dimension as you want it!
With regard to douglas fir, the shrinkage when drying is quite high http://www.wood-database.com/douglas-fir/ which means that unless what you buy is fully seasoned and dry, it may move about a fair bit if it continues to dry, and/or is allowed to become wet again. Compare that to the shrinkage % of accoya between wet and dried https://www.accoya.com/wp-content/uploa ... N_2016.pdf and you see why accoya is such a good choice for doors and windows.
As a planer it's pretty c**p, but I extended the thicknesser bed by bolting in a length of 18mm ply, removed the stupid plastic chip deflector and disabled the safety interlock (!!!), then made a plywood guard so the chips could just spit out - it makes loads and I didn't have a vacuum capable of handling the chip output!!
However, it has now processed a grand and half's worth of accoya into nicely PAR stock without changing a belt or blade.
I'd make your window in one piece. The largest sash window I have just made is around 2m H x 1.2m W
Having said all that, making a decent window takes planning. If you are using DG units, you also need to be thinking about draught seals, which are easily bought, but require planning in your sections. (no point having DG if your casements have gaps!) Similarly, how will you install DG units? I used dry glazing clips from reddiseals, and internal beads - everything is available, but much of the challenge is drawing up your sections. How will you machine them? It'll be a challenge IMHO without a router table, but certainly do-able, even with hand tools if you take your time. (but having just made a house full of windows, even with a domino for joints, decent router table, all the cutters for slotting out for seals, scribed joints etc, it's a work-out!)
For one window that is going to comply with building regs, the tools and/or time required are not insignificant. You need to work to quite tight tolerances. Anally I attempted to work to 0.2mm, and can fairly honestly say I achieved +/- 0.5mm in all my dimensions. (there is a certain satisfaction when you lay the laser measure over a large window frame, and get the same measurements top/bottom side/side to the mm)
But, if you can do it, you can make something as good or better than commercial products, and to a style and dimension as you want it!
With regard to douglas fir, the shrinkage when drying is quite high http://www.wood-database.com/douglas-fir/ which means that unless what you buy is fully seasoned and dry, it may move about a fair bit if it continues to dry, and/or is allowed to become wet again. Compare that to the shrinkage % of accoya between wet and dried https://www.accoya.com/wp-content/uploa ... N_2016.pdf and you see why accoya is such a good choice for doors and windows.
Thanks for your advice, much appreciated.
I have made some windows. Simple large sealed units. I have used the sealing strips, having previously used silicone, and it's so much easier, better etc. I have made two small casement windows and just used self adhesive draught excluder on a roll...good quality and works fine. On this bigger project in an exposed area I have to ensure I get it right. I will aim to use a router to add a draught excluding strip on he casement frame. As for building regs.....my current inherited UPVC ones are shot so what I do will be an improvement. I am not selling so b regs not an issue.
I paid for one sealed unit because it is so large and I wouldn't have been able to install it...I had to help 2 others to do so. They used redwood and for sealed units i can't see an issue...but with large casement I realise stability is essential and if I can get my head around the thicknesses you refer to will try the accoya. That being said I would have thought that with draught excluder etc. any shrinkage would be accounted for.
I note the current uPVC eyesore has the glazing internally because they took a shortcut when fitting. I may make it in 3 sections both for aesthetic reasons and so I can fit on my own. Weight of one sealed unit would be too much to deal with high up externally....maybe if you have the patience I could put up some drawings and photos. Currently making up cladding on wall using plywood. Using router to make it look like wooden planks of various widths. Paint with Weathershield. Did part of house last year. I'll check out Screwfix in the meantime. Thanks again
I have made some windows. Simple large sealed units. I have used the sealing strips, having previously used silicone, and it's so much easier, better etc. I have made two small casement windows and just used self adhesive draught excluder on a roll...good quality and works fine. On this bigger project in an exposed area I have to ensure I get it right. I will aim to use a router to add a draught excluding strip on he casement frame. As for building regs.....my current inherited UPVC ones are shot so what I do will be an improvement. I am not selling so b regs not an issue.
I paid for one sealed unit because it is so large and I wouldn't have been able to install it...I had to help 2 others to do so. They used redwood and for sealed units i can't see an issue...but with large casement I realise stability is essential and if I can get my head around the thicknesses you refer to will try the accoya. That being said I would have thought that with draught excluder etc. any shrinkage would be accounted for.
I note the current uPVC eyesore has the glazing internally because they took a shortcut when fitting. I may make it in 3 sections both for aesthetic reasons and so I can fit on my own. Weight of one sealed unit would be too much to deal with high up externally....maybe if you have the patience I could put up some drawings and photos. Currently making up cladding on wall using plywood. Using router to make it look like wooden planks of various widths. Paint with Weathershield. Did part of house last year. I'll check out Screwfix in the meantime. Thanks again
If you're looking for a thicknesser for this single project, I would look on ebay, buy something of reasonable quality and then sell it on after you've finished with it. I doubt you would lose much on the deal.
Something like this would see you right. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kity-1636-pl ... =R40&rt=nc
Something like this would see you right. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kity-1636-pl ... =R40&rt=nc
Yes, I appreciate it. Given I only have one, albeit a monster, I am not sure whether to buy pre planed, get someone else to do it for me me, or buy a planer. Currently working on a plywood facade, so have a couple of days left to makes decision....anyone in Somerset make windows well?
By the way, if you have not picked up any timber yet, look at Oscar Windebanks in Box just outside Bath. They do mostly hard woods, but do douglas fir which is good quality. I have just finished some windows using it.
Nick
Nick
