Window joint scribing

[HOJ]

I'm working on replicating an old mullioned window, mentioned in a past post, sections are fairly big, I am making it up using laminated sections to achieve the required sizes, for context this is the end of the sections to be glued together for the jambs/head and the mullions/transom profiles, the original is on the right, in the first pic obviously!:





I need to speed up my efficiency on coping/scribing all the joints for the mullions and transom, example of what I have done so far:



I have another 6 to do on this side of the frame, which is the inside face section, and a repeat of 8 to be done on the outer face, The method so far is:- roughly mark the cope lines, bandsaw close to line then spend a while fettling and undercutting the profile to get a clean and close edge profile.




I accept the fact that it is what it is, and will be a time consuming job, but you can go blind to the obvious sometimes, and cant see the wood etc, any ideas or suggestions?

 

[Adam W.]

It looks very good and you'll get faster as you go along, once you suss out all the tricks.

The mitre is the best one of the two mullions.

 

[Jacob]

The key thing is marking up from a rod (working drawing on a board) prepared from the design drawings. The less sure you are about what you are doing, the greater the need for marking up.
Every mark should be in place, such that you can cut out and shape each component separately, and they should all fit together from the start, like Lego. A bit of fine tuning may be needed but they should be close to a good fit from the start.
All marks should be taken by referring back to the rod and not by overlaying one component over another, or similar bodge.

 

[Doug71]

Can you cut mitres on them first then cope to the mitre line if that makes any sense?

 

[Jacob]

Can you cut mitres on them first then cope to the mitre line if that makes any sense?

Yes thats one way - mitre to the marks then cope out to the mitre line, or cut a v to take it in, or a combination of both.
No marks visible on @HOJ 's pieces - that's called doing it blind, the hard way!!
It can take some time to mark everything up but once you have you are on auto-pilot and it speeds up.
PS The old bit in your photo doesn't look that old to me?Only one layer of paint and a clean joint? No glazing rebates? etc

 

[johnnyb]

There's not a lot to add really only that coping these things up all the same length isn't gonna be easy(they wont crush or bend much). One trick you could adapt is to make a sanding stick that you could sand the profile to shape and length and square across( after back cutting the scribe significantly) using a sort of Shute to run the stick along. This will simplify getting everything identical a bit.
Often those have flat angled faces on the cill rather than the full mould.

 

[johnnyb]

Like this

 

[HOJ]

Had a day of uninterrupted focus on this job yesterday, its been a bit fractured to date, the outcome was positive, taking on board some comments! will update when I get a bit more time.

 

[Setch]

Nothing helpful to add, but wanted to say how much I've been enjoying watching this project, both here and on the other place. Thanks for sharing!

 

[HOJ]

Thank you for your comments @Jacob , I would like to assure you, I am sure about what I'm doing, this isn't a "bodge" and I'm not "doing it blind" or the "hard way", either. I have no problems with setting out, and don't need a rod in this case to tell me the measurements I already know.

I was simply asking the question as to whether I have missed a fundamental method of cutting coped/scribed joints with mouldings on this scale, which you also helped to answer, but a rod will not have helped

Paul

 

[Jacob]

..... a rod will not have helped

...

Yes it would. You would have in place the marks exactly in place to which to saw your 45º and then to cope out the profile. None of that "roughly mark the cope lines, bandsaw close to line then spend a while fettling and undercutting the profile to get a clean and close edge profile" though a little fine adjustment might be called for with an incannel scribing gouge, possibly undercutting a gnats, for a tight fit
100% marking up from a rod is tedious but once it's done everything is much easier and mistakes/corrections hugely reduced - that's the whole point and you wouldn't then be asking how to do it!

 

[HOJ]

100% marking up from a rod is tedious but once it's done everything is much easier and mistakes/corrections hugely reduced - that's the whole point and you wouldn't then be asking how to do it!

Maybe you missed my question in the first instance, oh well, that's it from me on this one.

 

[Jacob]

Maybe you missed my question in the first instance, oh well, that's it from me on this one.

You said "...roughly mark the cope lines, bandsaw close to line then spend a while fettling and undercutting the profile to get a clean and close edge profile."
That's not how I'd do it and I've done a lot of windows.

 

[scooby]

Not sure if this is any use but this video was released today.

 

[HOJ]

Just thought I would update this thread, frame is all cut and shut just waiting for a rise in temp to glue it up:



PS. No rods were harmed in the making of this!

 

[Cabinetman]

Most impressed!
I think the fitting of it could be -erm, interesting.

 

[HOJ]

I think the fitting of it could be -erm, interesting.

Got to get it up 3 flights of scaffold as well, weighs about 80Kg

 

[Setch]

Wow! Lovelylooking job, and totally supports the earlier comments about the sections and design being reminiscent of stone work.

 

[HOJ]

Got to get it up 3 flights of scaffold

Took some doing but got there.