Window Frames

[oliadams92]

Hi I have just been made redundant and have set up a little workshop in my garage. I have been asked to make six window frames (800x400x35). Mortice and tennons, rebated to hold the glass, decorative interior beading etc. the windows are painted and she dosent want wood that is to expensive. I was just wandering if anyone could give me a rough idea of how much I should be charging my customer, what would be a good wood to use.
Thanks in advance
Oli

 

[oliadams92]

Also I do not have to include the glass.. any help would be apprieciated. I was thinking about £90 per window? including the wood

 

[Steve Maskery]

The wood is not the expensive part. Your labour is. How have you calculated £90?
If you choose cheap wood to save a few bob you will almost certainly pay for it in trouble - movement, splits etc.
Buy Unsorted redwood and insist she pays to have it tanalised before installation. It will save you having to explain why it's starting to rot after a couple of winters.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.
S

 

[Dibs-h]

How long would it take you to make 1 window?

 

[gardenshed]

Are you Fensa registered to make windows, if not you'll need to get building control to pass them.
If they are not like for like replacements you'll need to do the above. Making windows is not what it was.

FWIW can you honestly make those windows for £90 each :shock: .

IMHO forget cheap timber, as Steve mentions it's just not worth it.

I'm not trying to put a downer on your entrepreneurial ideas, I'm just trying to help make sure you know what your letting yourself in for .

Welcome to the forum .

 

[oliadams92]

Thanks for all your helpful reply's! I take it £90 is a bit cheap haha. I have been to a timber yard and the unsorted redwood will cost me roughly £12 per window frame. I also think that to make the windows it will take roughly 5 days (5x8hrs=40hrs) give myself £15 an hour (40hrsx£15=£600) (£600+£78(window frame price) = £678) (£678/6 frames = £113 per frame) so does £113 per window sound about right?
Thanks again!

 

[Dibs-h]

How much do you have invested in tools & equipment - much of which doesn't have an infinite lifespan?

How long will it take you to go and get the timber? You going by taxi or have you your own vehicle? Or is the customer lending you her car?

 

[tomatwark]

£15 per hour is way to cheap.

You have to allow for replacing/ upgrading you tools, your business insurance, public liability insurance, time to price the timber, do the accounts, etc.

Before you give the customer a price work out a proper business plan, you will not make a good living working reasonable hours if you do not charge enough per hour.

Also if you are cheap you will get a reputation for that which is very hard to lose when you want to increase your prices.

Tom

 

[ProShop]

£15 per hour is way to cheap.

You have to allow for replacing/ upgrading you tools, your business insurance, public liability insurance, time to price the timber, do the accounts, etc.

Tom

Also the Tax man :lol: you have registered with him haven't you... :?: Automatic fine if not through the post...........

Then there's national insurance contributions, Class 4 stamp, it goes on & on & on.................. , cost of running a vehicle..ouch ,.............................

 

[mitre]

5 days to make 6 little sashes ?
if they don't have glazing bars, in my pro workshop
a days work.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I think we have already established that Oli is not yet a pro.
S

 

[RogerM]

Welcome to the forum Oli.

Lot's of words of wisdom above. FWIW, I think your prices are unrealistically low as well.

Are you to provide an unfinished product for the client to paint, or a fully finished window?

Although these are small windows, handles, locks, hinges etc are the same regardless of window size (within reason).

The windows may be small, but there is as much work in a small one as a large one. The number of joints, hinges and locks are the same.

The timber cost will only be a small part of the overall cost. Building them out of something decent would add very little to the cost but the perceived additional value to the customer may be considerable.

Don't underestimate the time needed to get a decent finish.

Don't base your prices on mass produced stock sizes. These are bespoke and should be priced as such.

 

[joiner_sim]

Hi,
When I was making windows & doors the company's labour rate was £40 an hour. This is probably a bit too high for a one man workshop, as this was for a workshop with 5 joiners, 3 machinists, 3 labourers & 4 office staff - so bigger overheads, but the £40 rate should give you an idea of what you can charge. This was back in 2009.

 

[PMK54]

Back in the early 1980s our then neighbour replaced his windows with ones he made himself using run-of-the-mill softwood sourced from the local merchant - he then sold his house. About 10-years later our present neighbour had to start replacing those windows himself due to rot, warping, etc etc. So I believe within reason get timber that's up to the task and which the local yard says is suitable, and is willing to replace if it all goes wrong in a reasonable period. Also use the right primer and paint finish.

 

[houtslager]

I second PMK's comment - prime it well with a quality primer and it will pay you back in years of service.

hth

k