Wierd Tormek problem

[Richard S]

A couple of years ago I bought a new Tormek 2006 and for various reasons I've never really warmed to it and therefor I've only used it maybe three or four times, right from the outset I've had real problems in maintaining a square edge on chisels and plane irons. I mentioned this to the guy who was demonstrating on the Brimarc stand at the show near Warwick last year, he suggested as have others that I may be overtightening one side of the clamp. ( I can see how this would cause this problem ) However maintaining an even pressure either side has not made any difference. I then bought the diamond truing device to ensure the wheel is square to the support ( it is ) but still no improvement.

For these reasons the machine was put away and ignored until last week
when having got fed up with dull irons and chisels I decided to give it another chance.

This time I noticed that on each revolution of the wheel the sound changed as it passed the edge of the tool like it had a flat spot, so I got out the diamond dresser and retrued the wheel. This made no difference, at the top of every revolution the same thing, then I noticed that if you look at the wheel in profile you can see the it is not running concentrically, if you watch the measurement marks on the machine body it looks like the wheel is oval not circular, thinking maybe the arbour was bent I sighted down the flat side of the wheel but this seems to run true rather than wobble like it should with a bent shaft.

Next I lowered the support bar down to the wheel with just enough clearance for it to start to turn however after about 3/4 of a turn it jammed indicating that the wheel is not properly circular, I redressed it but I still have the same problem.

I know this is a bit rambling and incoherent but does anyone have any ideas before I through it through the window!!!!!!!

Have I bought the worlds most expensive door stop?

regards

Richard

 

[CHJ]

When you say you dressed the wheel, did you use a fixed register dresser such as the 'ADV-50D Diamond Stone Truing Tool' or the latter 'TT-50 Truing and Dressing Tool' supplied with the T7?

Doing so should have trued the wheel to a true circle.

Is the Wheel water saturated over its whole diameter, it pays to run it for a while with ample water in the bath due to the large volume that it will absorb, it can lead to unbalanced stone if one portion has been sitting in water whose level drops as soon as the stone rotates.

 

[gidon]

How much out of concentric is it? Check with the Universal Support Bar touching the highest point of the stone and measure the difference to the lowest part of the stone. The diamond truing tool can only take a small amount in each pass. You may need to run it a few times until you can hear it surfacing the whole wheel.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[NeilO]

CHJ wrote

Is the Wheel water saturated over its whole diameter, it pays to run it for a while with ample water in the bath due to the large volume that it will absorb,

And hes definately right in what he says , I find on average the stone will take 2+ litres of water from completely dry to keeping the water in the tray/bath...
Richard did you get the truing device, or the redressing stone?? ( sorry the codes ref avails me at the moment) but the first is a fixed diamond dresser, the latter is just a stone handheld for dressing the stone to different grits
the stone sounds like it does need trueing not dressing to remove the high spot..

hope you get it sorted, because the Tormek is a good machine ( proud owner of 2006 )

 

[Richard S]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the replies so far, it is the diamond truing tool that I have been using not the dressing stone so the wheel should now be circular, I've done this three times now. As for soaking the stone whilst it is true to say that initially I just kept filling the resevoir until the wheel stopped soaking it up without it turning, I used two 1 litre bottles of water, about 1 and 1/2 litres initially the rest to top up during use, by the time I got around to truing the wheel for the second time the machine had been in use for a couple of hours so should have been evenly soaked by then I guess. I would say that without measuring the wheel looked like it was running out by 2-3mm.

I to hope I can get to the bottom of this as the Tormek gets an edge I could never get sharpening by hand.

Thanks again

 

[Anonymous]

_____

 

[CHJ]

Check that the wheel central bush is the correct size and a good fit to the shaft.
As supplied it should be correct but 's***' happens and you may have a stone that is not located correctly on the shaft.

 

[misterfish]

Is there any degree of 'play' in the shaft - what I mean is if you hold the stone and lift it can you feel any sloppiness or does the whole machine lift.

The shaft is only supported with a couple of nylon bearings and these should be a reasonable snug fit. If not then they should be replaced. The other thing is the shaft itself - is it mild steel or stainless steel. If mild steel it could be corroded giving a loose bearing. On my old machine I ensure the shaft is lubricated with teflon grease to protect it from water.

Misterfish

 

[tnimble]

If the stone was 2-3mm out of round the truing tool when set on the low spot the tool would jam the stone.

Set the truing tool at the high spot and set it to take bit off. You must notice that the truing tool only grinds the stone at certain points. Repeat until the stone is fulle round.

 

[Richard S]

Thanks for the input, I'm going to have a closer look over the weekend, I'll let you know what I find, thanks again.

Richard

 

[Benchwayze]

The wheel on my Tormek is also off centre and I had the same problem.
I dressed the wheel with a carborundum dressing stone, but it still isn't perfect.

I found the best way was to put the chisel/plane blade in at an angle, (Horizontally) to compensate for the tendency to grind out of square.

If you can follow me, the 'high' angle of the out-of-square edge leads, and is is presented to the stone first. This corrects the edge. Never had any trouble since, other than sometimes a fiddle getting the chisel sloped exactly right. But that is just 'suck it and see'.

I agree that we shouldn't have to do this, but I live with it now and use the Tormek for everything except planer knives. I have the jig, but I still prefer to have those done on a balanced, pro set-up. I use the planer jig for sharpening my guillotine blades. A job it does admirably.

John

 

[bob_c]

A few years back, I was given an older model tormek from the 1980`s and found that there was alot of play in the spindle/bearings ,it also had an oval wheel.It had hardly been used before i was given it.So its not a new problem.I since bought a Jet version and i`m very pleased with it.

 

[misterfish]

A few years back, I was given an older model tormek from the 1980`s and found that there was alot of play in the spindle/bearings ,it also had an oval wheel.It had hardly been used before i was given it.So its not a new problem.I since bought a Jet version and i`m very pleased with it.

That was the problem with mine. I dismantled it and found the spindle badly corroded and the corrosion (rust) had badly worn the nylon bearings. I contacted the importers (can't remember if it was NMA) and they were very helpful and I purchased new bearings and spindle for a fairly low cost. I then used the dresser on the stone and it all worked fine after that.

What I always do is to ensure that the spindle and beaings are dry after use and also regularly use teflon grease on the bearings and spindle to protect the system from corrosion.

I believe that in the USA you can get a stainless steel version of the spindle to do away with the corrosion problems.

Misterfish

 

[gidon]

Yes the latest version - the T7 and later versions of the 2006 all have stainless steel shaft and stone hardware.
John - you really need to get a truing tool - the tt-50 to correct your stone. As well as sorting out your stone - you can make the stone cut very aggresively with a fast pass of the truing tool which is what I do since I mainly use the Tormek for grinding. (As soon as you grade the stone it will lose this aggresive action).
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks gidon...
Is this truing tool the same as the Case hardened tool I bought with the Tormek? All I ever managed with that tool was tramline grroves, as it was like trying to true with a svrewdriver! It must have been the way I was using it, but it took ages to get rid of those tramline grooves!

I will have a look at this though and if it looks as if will work, I will true up the stone.

Thanks again
John

 

[Blister]

Just a thought , could you not get a engineering firm to true the wheel up

Then re fit on your machine and check to see if it runs true then , if it does not run true then you can look for the problem on the shaft / bearings etc

Or get hold of a dial indicator and put it in the wheel shaft and check for run out

Hope this helps :wink:

 

[gidon]

John - the old truing tool was the ADV-50 and the new one is the TT-50 - both are diamond tipped. If you move quickly across you do get thos tramlines - you can get rid of them using the grading stone, but I find the make the cut far more aggressive which is perfect if you going straight to bench stones.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Losos]

Richard,

I bought my Tormek a couple of years ago as well and like you I've noticed that the edge of the blade being sharpened does move up and down as the wheel turns.

It is only barely noticeable and unlike you I've been struck with a bad attack of inertia and haven't investigated.

I'm noting all the replies to this thread and will force myself to meausure (with a dial gauge) just how much it is out.

I also got the truing tool recently but again I haven't yet used it

 

[Benchwayze]

Thanks Gidon. I'll look into this.
Regards
John