Wide alcove shelves

[Raymien]

Morning,

Hoping you can give me advice about wide alcove shelves.

I've been asked to build some shelves in two alcoves, with fitted cabinets below. The right side is 1.52m wide, which is larger than others I've done before. The left side is narrower, at 1.37m, however it has no wall to the left side due to the door into the room. Mock up below (without the cupboards drawn in)

Would it be possible to fit two 300mm or so deep shelves on the left in this scenario? How would you do it? My usual method is to fit batons around the perimeter, with top/bottom boards and a lip. This would work for the right hand side (potentially with the shelves themselves needing a steel support across it length to prevent sag) but the left hand gives me concerns that it will be too heavy/sag/fall.

I've read that fitting steel rods into the wall and shelf can offer support, but I'll need up to 6 on the left side and I've also read they can be tricky to get level. All holes have to be bang on square and line up. I do not own a drill press.

I'm waiting to hear if the client is willing to go for a tall 'all in one' unit each side instead, offering me many more fixings options across the back and sides due to there being panels all the way around, but I need a backup plan if they don't want to go down that route.

Advice appreciated!

 

[robgul]

The LH side is really "floating shelves" - you can buy them ready made with the wall brackets - have a Google.

The other option to get over the hole alignment issue is to make the shelves as two parts laminated together - using a router to cut half-depth blind slots in each leaf to take the rods on the steel wall brackets - that's how this bathroom shelf was made with 18mm ply.

 

[Bingy man]

I’m assuming the door is hinged on the left hand side of your diagram ? If so you could create your own ( end panel) to support the end of those shelves . Or you could combine wood and metal by supporting the shelves with Chrome rods or similar fitted vertical from the cupboard below similar to this

 

[Raymien]

The LH side is really "floating shelves" - you can buy them ready made with the wall brackets - have a Google.

The other option to get over the hole alignment issue is to make the shelves as two parts laminated together - using a router to cut half-depth blind slots in each leaf to take the rods on the steel wall brackets - that's how this bathroom shelf was made with 18mm ply.

View attachment 173838

Thanks for the reply. Making the shelves in two parts was how I was going to go about it. My worry was more about making sure the holes drilled in the masonry were correct, rather than the shelf. Drilling multiple 15mm holes in a brick wall, the slightest bit wander and I'll be struggling.

 

[Raymien]

I’m assuming the door is hinged on the left hand side of your diagram ? If so you could create your own ( end panel) to support the end of those shelves . Or you could combine wood and metal by supporting the shelves with Chrome rods or similar fitted vertical from the cupboard below similar to this

Thank you.
Yeah, an end panel is my preferred choice and I'm waiting for the client to come back to me with an answer on creating full height units as opposed to separate cupboards and shelves. I just wanted to come up with a backup plan in case they say they don't want full height ones.

 

[Bingy man]

Thank you.
Yeah, an end panel is my preferred choice and I'm waiting for the client to come back to me with an answer on creating full height units as opposed to separate cupboards and shelves. I just wanted to come up with a backup plan in case they say they don't want full height ones.

I would have a few options tbh but I’m sure by the time this thread runs it’s course you will have more ideas than you could think of .. personally I don’t trust floating shelves ( at least those cheap kits you can buy ) I’ve fitted several for friends and family but they just don’t work . I’ve seen a few online that look heavy duty but I’ve never fitted any . End panel / one unit would be my preference -good luck

 

[Etaf]

i have fitted a couple of floating shelves (oak, purchased from a specialist company for floating shelves ) and was worried about the alighment - but i made a template and really took my time and they worked out well
i in a kitchen with nothing either side and it does support books OK
drilled into a outside cavity wall

What is going onto the shelves - loads of books would be heavy

what is the backwall made off ???

i have used some small woddern brackets before as well on a long wall shelf

these infact
https://www.diy.com/departments/goo...FZzqpBSh7D4cRSJGExRoClcUQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.dsBut everything was painted white

 

[Distinterior]

If I have a need to fit floating shelves, I use these things....

They are adjustable up/ down, left/right and also can be adjusted to tilt the shelf up/ down.
The only downside to them is, ..maximum shelf depth front to back is 200mm.

Accurate machining of the holes and pocket in the shelf is important, but with the adjustability of these brackets, it does allow for a couple of mm of error when fixing them to the wall.

 

[recipio]

Those brackets look very good - who retails them ? Rockler in the US sell heavy duty adjustable brackets and they claim that two will support 125 pounds with a shelf up to 48" long. I'm sure those dimensions could be stretched a little to suit to OP's requirements. However a vertical board on the left side is an easier option and stops the books from falling over.

 

[Distinterior]

Those brackets look very good - who retails them ?

I believe Hafele sell a version of this bracket, as do Hettich.
The Hafele ones do not have anywhere near as much adjustment on them though....

I've had a load of the ones pictured for many years, but there is no identifying name or brand on them.....

These do look pretty much identical though.....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CONCEALED-FLOATING-SUPPORT-BRACKET-CHROME/dp/B00M69O41E

 

[Cabinetman]

If you do go down the route of making the shelves in two parts I would recommend making them as torsion boxes, the weight of things on those shelves over that length could/will cause problems.
Torsion box shelves won’t take much longer than two bits of solid wood, and you can make them from veneered MDF with a solid lip, much lighter too.
I like the look of those adjustable brackets, not sure why you’re limited to 200mm shelf depth though.
Ian

 

[Distinterior]

I like the look of those adjustable brackets, not sure why you’re limited to 200mm shelf depth though.
Ian

I was informed by the original supplier, that 200mm was the maximum depth of any solid shelf that they would supply( which is twice the length of the 12mm hexagonal pin)......I imagine it's to do with the leverage on the shelf when loaded up...?

If a Torsion Box shelf was utilised, I imagine you might get away with a deeper than 200mm shelf due to reduced weight, but the leverage is still likely to be an issue.

 

[Cabinetman]

Oh I hadn’t realised they were only 100mm long, that would explain it, I certainly wouldn’t go any more than the 200.

 

[Howie65]

Hi
I'd use 12mm threaded bar propped level and square and chem fixed into presuming brick wall(sticking out as far to suit shelf depth, mine are 300mm out) - chem fix doesn't take long to go off/set.
Drill oversized hole in the shelf to allow for any wander when drilling and again chem fix and slide on and prop until set, you could use a slimmer threaded bar if necessary if only using 18mm MDF, is 25mm too thick for your needs/look ?
I did this for my lounge rather than an entertainment cupboard under the TV which is on the wall.
6 different height/position shelves with different toys on -
AVR, Blu-ray, xbox, etc are still sitting there 10 years later

 

[TomGW]

I can understand that your client may not want a full height unit and is aiming for the open, floating appearance that you have illustrated.

One way of at least partially achieving this would be to create a single unit by joining both shelves with two vertical sections, inset roughly 330mm from each end - no need for a back. These vertical sections could be thinner than the shelves and not as deep, thus maintaining the visual dominance of the horizontal shelves. If there’s going to be books on the lower shelf it would help to reduce the appearance of the vertical members.

This would create a rigid unit, similar to a cabinet, that provides full support to both shelves and simply needs to be ‘hung’ on the wall. A few keyhole plates would fix the shelves securely on the wall.

Strictly speaking, if you’re going with the hidden batten approach you really only need one of the vertical sections, towards the open (door) end of the shelves.

 

[TomGW]

An alternative approach would be to fabricate a bracket by welding two projecting box sections, the same thickness as your batten, to a vertical 6 or 8mm plate, track the wall, screw & epoxy it in place and fill over.

 

[recipio]

If you don't want hardware another option is to make your shelves with a long slotted mortise at the back about 50 mm deep and slide it over a corresponding tenon screwed to the wall. It would have to be a snug fit and secured with a few screws from the top. I'd probably glue it to prevent sagging although it would need a sledgehammer to get it off again !

 

[Raymien]

I'm terribly grateful for all the excellent information in your replies. Thank you.
The client has decided they want to go for lower cabinets only, with no shelves. I'll take your tips forward with me though

 

[Bingy man]

I'm terribly grateful for all the excellent information in your replies. Thank you.
The client has decided they want to go for lower cabinets only, with no shelves. I'll take your tips forward with me though

That’s what we are all here for - we live and learn ..