Why buy from AXMINSTER TOOLS?

[jimi43]

I started this thread based on service not product.

Every retailer sells product of varying quality based on price demand from the public and institutions like schools.

Yesterday when I was "browsing" I was looking at their expensive pro cast router tables...they are beautiful but not cheap. They also sell value ones based on MDF.

For obvious reasons they are highly unlikely to last the same or perform the same...especially in schools where the potential for abuse is higher.

The same would apply if I bought a Festool rather than a cheaper model costing 1/10th of the price...expecting otherwise would be naive at the very least.

What is important is the response to problems within warranty....problems with fair complaints.

I bought a Sieg milling machine knowing that it was made in Shanghai...knowing that I would have to clean off the protective grease and adjust it...and knowing that it has limitations which fall well within my requirements and I am the only one who is going to use it.

I have no intention of blaming Axminster for my choice...and I don't blame them for selling varying qualities of product...they wouldn't survive if they didn't. What I am complimenting them on is my experience of their customer service if something does go wrong. My choosing them was based on reputation here by the majority of members and so far...I have not been disappointed! =D>

Jim

Jim

 

[Stormer1940]

I started this thread based on service not product.

Every retailer sells product of varying quality based on price demand from the public and institutions like schools.

Yesterday when I was "browsing" I was looking at their expensive pro cast router tables...they are beautiful but not cheap. They also sell value ones based on MDF.

For obvious reasons they are highly unlikely to last the same or perform the same...especially in schools where the potential for abuse is higher.

The same would apply if I bought a Festool rather than a cheaper model costing 1/10th of the price...expecting otherwise would be naive at the very least.

What is important is the response to problems within warranty....problems with fair complaints.

I bought a Sieg milling machine knowing that it was made in Shanghai...knowing that I would have to clean off the protective grease and adjust it...and knowing that it has limitations which fall well within my requirements and I am the only one who is going to use it.

I have no intention of blaming Axminster for my choice...and I don't blame them for selling varying qualities of product...they wouldn't survive if they didn't. What I am complimenting them on is my experience of their customer service if something does go wrong. My choosing them was based on reputation here by the majority of members and so far...I have not been disappointed! =D>

Jim

Jim

Response to products in warranty? If you pay good money for a product that gets LITTLE use over a year and then continues to fail beyond belief Axminster should still warrant it and not hide behind the 1yr warranty by a cocky manager.

I think another member has already said that if you pay good money for an item you do not expect the thing to fail over such a small space of time.

I think that you need to look at some of the older machinery. Wadkin, Sager, Cooksley. It's still going after all these years without these small defects some of the modern day machinery suffer from that near enough make the machines unusable .

If I buy a mortiser I still expect it to not fail after just mortising 20 mortises in SOFTWOOD over a year.
Because customer service is good it doesn't excuse the fact that the some of the engineering is rubbish!

If it was me I'd be looking at customer service along with the quality of build. Is chucking replacements at bad build quality really the answer these days.??

 

[Eric The Viking]

@Mike W.

I think it's wholly fair for you to call it as you see it.

I too have had problems with Axminster own-brand stuff. I have a small mortiser of theirs, which was replaced twice. BUT (and it is a big "but"), in both cases the after-sales service was excellent - probably the best I've had from anyone, ever, never mind a tool supplier.

Axminster have a very big challenge regarding machine quality: The old stuff (Wadkin, Startrite, etc.) of years past was much better made. It was built to last, but if they tried that strategy now they'd go out of business pretty fast. The big difference is that Wadkin dominated a growing market. The market is now mature (round these parts, at least), and the game is largely about taking market share off the competition.

If Axminster just made brilliant own-brand stuff, they'd be undercut by importers. They're trying to strike a difficult balance between quality and price, and it is very hard to get right. Worse still, to an extent their QC process has to be reactive rather than proactive - fix faults rather than prevent them.

Those of us lucky enough to visit in March saw their own manufacturing operation (lathe chucks, etc). Their QC and standards are very high, and it was a delight to see. The difference is though that they control the whole process. This isn't practical for their imported range, although it's obvious they do have a continuous improvement process going with that.

Mature markets are tricky:

Problem #1: Say you make the perfect table saw, at a really good price. You sell relative shedloads and you build up a big installed base. They don't break. Sales dry up. You go bust.

Problem #2: your table saw is better than the competition, but the price reflects that. You sell some, to people who can afford them. They don't break. Sales dry up. You go bust, and meanwhile your competitors are importing cheap stuff from China by the container-load, selling it, then selling more of it as the first ones break.

Broadly, if things don't wear out (or need to be replaced by "better" things), manufacturers cannot easily stay in business. Wadkin were arguably too good to survive - horrible thought, but probably true nonetheless. They sold well as demand overall grew in the early decades of the last century, but once things flattened out post WWII (into the 1980s), old Wadkins were better value than new ones. That couldn't keep Wadkin in business, as events proved.

The successful companies strike a balance between build quality and longevity, so that users are satisfied enough to come back for replacements. Bosch spring to mind in this context, although I won't be repeating my purchase of cordless tools next time, as they've cost/quality reduced with each successive generation I've bought. They went too far this time!

Personally, I'm realistic about the low-end machine tools I buy. I'd love better made ones, but I can't afford them. Axminster, probably more so than other major suppliers, allows me to have kit I couldn't otherwise. I'm not on my own post-purchase, and it's a balance I can live with.

So I don't disagree with you, but the cost of really heavy-duty machines for those jobs would be more than a school or college could afford.

E.

 

[James C]

This is very true, I remember my lecturer at university telling the class that his sole job was design engine parts to fail after 100,000 miles but perform well up to that point to ensure future parts sales.

I won't mention the name of the manufacturer but it rhymes with horde.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Response to products in warranty? If you pay good money for a product that gets LITTLE use over a year and then continues to fail beyond belief Axminster should still warrant it and not hide behind the 1yr warranty by a cocky manager.

Warranty is a tough call too.

I've been on the sidelines around warranty decisions in the past.

You set warranty mainly as a statement of quality, and you make a careful cost-benefit decision about the length of it. No sensible company sticks to the exact second of warranty expiry, as it's really bad for reputation (for example, we won't EVER be buying a SEAT car again!). It would be better to warrant against use (and actually easier to do the calculations, probably), but unless the product has got some way of measuring that fairly (cars do, obviously), you're left with the calendar as the most cost effective option.

Customers pay for everything, including warranty failures, although not the direct cost of failures in products they own. If you had a ten-year warranty on everything, that would be reflected in the price in two costs: the cost of in-warranty repairs, and the cost of lost sales because of less frequent replacement purchases.

There are very few, if any, suppliers out there who have 'rip-off the customer' as a business model, but, in my (very limited) experience it's more common in large companies than smaller ones, because there's more room for office politics and individuals to move on before the stuff hits the fan. Smaller outfits know that damage to their reputation can kill them. The motor industry are notorious for it though, but they are enormous businesses, with lots of 'silo' departments and ample room for the worst sort of hierarchical politics internally.

 

[Stormer1940]

All this still doesn't change the way that I feel that the Manager at Axminster hid behind the "Oh well it's past the 1 yr warranty mark" and for that one reason they have damaged their reputation with me...

I now know that I will be spending little more cash else where to get something that will not fail well under a year with little use.

If you spend more at Axminster I assume you get a better build of machine but even so if I was to buy the cheaper version I'd expect it to be up to the job in hand which on this occasion it wasn't and as stated above the reaction and body language of the Manager dealing with it did not fill me with confidence.

 

[mac1012]

to me i think product is part of the service , if you keep getting goods that are substandard when you get them and keep having to return then to me that is poor service , poor product delivery = poor service, as service is delivery , i put customer service in a different bracket , but they need to have good customer service if some products keep getting returned.

 

[jimi43]

I think another member has already said that if you pay good money for an item you do not expect the thing to fail over such a small space of time.

I think that you need to look at some of the older machinery. Wadkin, Sager, Cooksley. It's still going after all these years without these small defects some of the modern day machinery suffer from that near enough make the machines unusable .

If it was me I'd be looking at customer service along with the quality of build. Is chucking replacements at bad build quality really the answer these days.??

Stormer....I am well aware of the quality of Wadkin et al....as I am equally aware of the price of these machines now and way back when. They are top of their range and I would expect them to last decades as we saw in my recent thread about the Wadkin gear in Minster!

I would love a Bridgeport milling machine but I have neither the space nor the need for this level of quality.

Chinese machines are built at a price, sell for a similar price and have limitations both in potential failure and limits of use. If you are careful, know how to use the machine correctly to the limits and don't over-stretch these limits then they are fine.

All retailers selling this gear run the gauntlet of those who don't...or don't take the time to find out first before pushing the gear beyond the limits..... They have no idea of how the purchaser has used it or misused it hence the warranty limit.

I'm only going by my experience...a very fair response to a very fair problem. The manager and staff at Sittingbourne are really friendly and helpful people...and I say it as it is. If they weren't I'm sure their reputation would soon get them replaced!

As far as product.....only the buyer can decide what is "fit for purpose". I bought one of those cheap plastic bright green centre finders a year or more ago because it was cheaper than making one...I use it all the time and it's still perfect. But I do put it back in its pack every time I finish with it and don't dance the Highland fling on it...so I guess that's why!

I bought the most expensive drill set they had because cheap carbon steel ones are rubbish...but they still sell them for those who just want do put the odd shelf up. Products are not the issue....we all know what is fit for purpose for us...if we don't we shouldn't be using them and take up flower arranging instead! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[Doug B]

If I buy a mortiser I still expect it to not fail after just mortising 20 mortises in SOFTWOOD over a year.

I presume you are referring to the same home brand mortiser I bought from Axminster a good few years back.
To be fair to Axi & their suppliers you have to admire their ability to not only manufacture a mortiser from orange cheese, but then to sell it on to unsuspecting customers as fit for purpose.

Not only that, but when the main cog that transfers the applied pressure from the arm to the head assembly simply crumbles under use their service team try, with total passion & conviction, to assure you that the said cheese is in fact cast iron.

If nothing else it gave comedy value.

 

[markov]

RE: Stormer

Hi I'm new to this site and am just reading people's comments but in your case Stormer I can't help but reply:

I have been buying tools from Axminster for years, they are of good quality (for the price) if you want a all singing dancing machine why do you not go for a top of the range? As far as the guarantee is concerned try taking back a TV to Comet one second over the Warrenty and see the reception you get (I tried). I don't think it's the Axminster manager that's at fault here, especially as even though it was out of warrenty he supplied another, whether he was wiggling his hips or doing the twist I think you had great service and am really surprised that you're still bleating???

Mark

 

[Stormer1940]

RE: Stormer

Hi I'm new to this site and am just reading people's comments but in your case Stormer I can't help but reply:

I have been buying tools from Axminster for years, they are of good quality (for the price) if you want a all singing dancing machine why do you not go for a top of the range? As far as the guarantee is concerned try taking back a TV to Comet one second over the Warrenty and see the reception you get (I tried). I don't think it's the Axminster manager that's at fault here, especially as even though it was out of warrenty he supplied another, whether he was wiggling his hips or doing the twist I think you had great service and am really surprised that you're still bleating???

Mark

Don't you think this is going a bit far? Obviously most of the guys here are happy with the service provided but I wasn't and I feel I should be able to express my opinion. After all the thread title is " Why Buy From Axminster Tools?" or Not in this case.

Was the thread started purely to rave about Axminster Tools? Sorry for saying anything negative.

Mark if you also read my posts you will see I stated that the machine part was replaced and not the whole machine... The machine was not fit for purpose after a few uses. Mortise chisel getting clogged, table wondering so mortise was not straight, back fence was out of square with table, threaded holes in table stripped and all this in less than a year!!!??? Why on earth would I write good reviews about my experience ...

 

[jimi43]

RE: Stormer

Hi I'm new to this site and am just reading people's comments but in your case Stormer I can't help but reply:

I have been buying tools from Axminster for years, they are of good quality (for the price) if you want a all singing dancing machine why do you not go for a top of the range? As far as the guarantee is concerned try taking back a TV to Comet one second over the Warrenty and see the reception you get (I tried). I don't think it's the Axminster manager that's at fault here, especially as even though it was out of warrenty he supplied another, whether he was wiggling his hips or doing the twist I think you had great service and am really surprised that you're still bleating???

Mark

Don't you think this is going a bit far? Obviously most of the guys here are happy with the service provided but I wasn't and I feel I should be able to express my opinion. After all the thread title is " Why Buy From Axminster Tools?" or Not in this case.

Was the thread started purely to rave about Axminster Tools? Sorry for saying anything negative.

Mark if you also read my posts you will see I stated that the machine part was replaced and not the whole machine... The machine was not fit for purpose after a few uses. Mortise chisel getting clogged, table wondering so mortise was not straight, back fence was out of square with table, threaded holes in table stripped and all this in less than a year!!!??? Why on earth would I write good reviews about my experience ...

Hi Stormer.

What you say is fair and that is the title of the thread. I feel sure that others reading this thread are able to make up their own mind when deciding on what supplier to use....and make that decision based on feedback here.

There are loads of things on the market today which one could describe as "not fit for purpose"...and I think it's really up to us and our common sense to decide what to buy. The internet and particularly open forums like this one are there to allow us to help guide us in making those decisions.

As Rob said earlier...Axminster are pioneers in product improvement and more importantly, have a great influence on improving the quality control of the supplier. It is in their interest to do so. Your feedback to them is important as this is the only way they are going to be able to get the supplier to correct problems. I am pretty sure that you will not get this sort of service from more "general DIY" chains....but that's another story entirely...isn't it! 8)

Jim

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I will confirm all the good points, Just bought a Jet PT310, at 230Kg it is no lightweight. My shop is in the back garden. To reach it he had to trolley jack the machine in, over gravel, which was no mean task. We spent about 15 mins huffing and puffing but got in in OK..........and he was smilling throughout.

 

[Stormer1940]

Hi Stormer.

What you say is fair and that is the title of the thread. I feel sure that others reading this thread are able to make up their own mind when deciding on what supplier to use....and make that decision based on feedback here.

There are loads of things on the market today which one could describe as "not fit for purpose"...and I think it's really up to us and our common sense to decide what to buy. The internet and particularly open forums like this one are there to allow us to help guide us in making those decisions.

As Rob said earlier...Axminster are pioneers in product improvement and more importantly, have a great influence on improving the quality control of the supplier. It is in their interest to do so. Your feedback to them is important as this is the only way they are going to be able to get the supplier to correct problems. I am pretty sure that you will not get this sort of service from more "general DIY" chains....but that's another story entirely...isn't it! 8)

Jim

Hi Jim,

No problem. Just to make clear to others reading this :wink: As said before I wasn't saying all machines from there were rubbish just that I have had a bad experience which has had a negative effect on my views on the place...

 

[Grahamshed]

I would be more than a little suspicious of any company that had nothing but good reviews. Axminster seem more than happy to publish realistic reviews judging by the number of items they sell that have 'rubbish' comments attached to them. I was looking at Forstner bits yesterday, they have two sets, one cheap, one more expensive. One rubbish, one good. Seems fair enough to me

 

[foxhunter]

Like other members of this forum I have bought many tools and machines from Axminster but the frequency has been reduced in the last few years. I agree with all the praise regarding their customer service, my experience is that it is the best.
HOWEVER
My loyalty lessened when they increased the range of own-brand products at the expense of well-known independent brands and also reduced the range of products (at least those of most interest to me). They really are becoming the Tesco of tool retailers. Gardening, plumbing, building & decorating, jewellery, stained glass and more! There are no tool shops in my area now, I can't walk into a shop to buy a saw or a plane - or even a forstner bit last week - and be able to handle them before making a choice. This is, of course, not the fault of Axminster (or Rutlands, Tilgear etc), the sheds play a part in this. Bigger and better(?) superstores and their associated parking facilities make it impossible for the specialised retailer to operate successfully. The supermarkets have taught us to expect to find everything we need under one roof.
Lastly, of course, for many people everything must be cheap. The problem really is that woodworkers are becoming fewer and fewer and the market is simply not there any more, locally.

 

[Losos]

FWIW my experience of their customer service has been good, I've purchased loads of tools and materials from them but only two small (Own brand) machines, angle grinder and sabre saw. The latter had some minor problems but it is a China made product. I find the people at the Bobbing, Kent branch very helpful and they will hold stuff for me until I'm able to call in to collect.

Everyone has their own view on 'Customer Service' but living in some countries I could name the words 'Customer Service' don't even exist, so I'm gratefull for what Axminster provide.

 

[woodbloke]

What you can be absolutely, cast-iron, 24c gold, certain of is that this discussion is being very closely monitored at Axminster - Rob

 

[custard]

Isn't there another issue here. In years gone past the great majority of woodworking machinery sold in the UK was bought by woodworking businesses. Today much of it is bought by woodworking hobbyists.

And that gives manufacturers and retailers a problem. Should they spec a machine to be run 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year, where downtime costs money, and where the machined component is expected to fit without any additional handwork?

Or should they spec the machine to suit an occasional user, who is prepared to do a little additional work to achieve a good fit, and who isn't that fussed if spare parts aren't available on 24 hour turnaround?

Get that decision wrong and they won't be in business long.

I remember reading that Black & Decker market research showed that the average buyer of one of their drill used it for less than a minute a year! If statistics like that guide their design briefs no wonder there's a lot of disgruntled users. But the equally the first mention of Festool on this or other web sites innevitably triggers lots of "rip off" mutterings too!

Who'd be a woodworking manufacturer today!

 

[mtr1]

I have spent probably thousands of pounds with them over the years, I had problems with a L/N iron and was told by someone (one of their tutors) I had overheated the iron, and it was my fault(not true). Luckily L/N stepped up and replaced it straight away. I now spend my thousands elsewhere, and buy as direct as possible, they are retailers nothing more. Might seem a bit petty, but I don't like being taken for an ***** when I have forgotten more than the "tutor" knows.