why are reversible routers and bits not a thing?

[johnnyb]

I've been making another arched door and the radii were to tight for my spindle cutters so I have used my old festo 2000 and a chunky rebate cutter. the festo is an incredibly smooth router and very powerful( but no brake).







the shape i just bandsawed and shaped using handtools(plane spokeshave rasp) the rebate I did using a chunky rebate and a bearing selection. the rebate cutter is 20mm and the rebate is 44mm. so I ran that around changing the bearings every cut until it was 1/2 inch deep. Next I used a large template cutter to slowly take the 24mm remaining wood to make it a rebate. the only slightly uncomfortable bit apart from the dust was the very end working completely against the grain it did not like it but after care tickling it worked OK. my point is a reversible router and bit would have made easy work of this and saved on my laundry bill!

 

[johnnyb]

showing finished arch and tools used

 

[Spectric]

Not sure I am getting this, if your router spins in the opposite direction and you have bits designed for that direction then the only thing that changes is you use the router in the opposite direction so back to where you started.

 

[johnnyb]

final careful cuts with the template cutter.

 

[deema]

Do Not Do This, it’s for info only.
They might not officially exist, but it is I believe doable. Take for instance the Trend cutter
https://trenddirectuk.com/trend-rt-...azoXF8Vng997XNuAtPcsEVRcyg339Zu0aAoblEALw_wcB
You can bolt the TCT cutter in upside down and you have a reversed cutter.

To reverse a universal motor you have to change the phase relationship between the field windings and the rotor windings. The simplest way to do that is to change which brush is connected to which field coil. There are two brushes and two field coils. Each brush is connected to one coil.

 

[deema]

Not sure I am getting this, if your router spins in the opposite direction and you have bits designed for that direction then the only thing that changes is you use the router in the opposite direction so back to where you started.

That’s exactly what you do on a spindle moulder to avoid blow out / running against the grain.

 

[johnnyb]

it's just better for grain direction and smooth cuts.the same reason spindle are occasionally found with 2 opposite running spindles. just strike me that such a specialist tool and series of bits would make much specialist circular work really straightforward.



r

 

[johnnyb]

much of that routing I wouldn't like to do with a lesser router. at that projection with that cut it was still silky. are you guys saying you hand feed a climb cut on the spindle?

 

[deema]

Nope, power feed no matter what direction. I don’t like too much excitement in my life but changing spindle direction doesn’t result in a climb cut.

 

[johnnyb]

ahh your saying reverse the direction and turn the cutter over. but with a reverse running router and half a dozen reverse bits you wouldn't have to worry about arches anymore. the would be fairly simple.
at Harrogate there is always the Hoffman guy. he is selling a system solely for making beaded face frames that costs tens of thousands of pounds.
as deema suggests it could be combined in a single router but a matching reverse router would be safer.

 

[johnnyb]

oh and maybe a different colour so there's no shock surprises!

 

[deema]

Your arch looks great. I personally would have laminated it up out of two or three layers to avoid the short grain on the ends. It would have made profiling the parts much easier, produced less waste and been stronger and less prone to twist / movement. That’s not so say what you’ve done it’s well executed, just there is more than one way of doing everything.

 

[Jacob]

A lot of work for a little arch detail. I'd wonder about doing the rebated head and stile straight through, at an angle, without the arch, then adding the curve details stuck on separately. Just little band-sawn and sanded brackets in the corners.

 

[johnnyb]

I'm with you on the short grain as I was thinking of piecing it together at the top but that resulted in a bit of very short grain on the troublesome corners. Jacob I've seen that way done loads but it's going in an arched stone opening that's only just tall enough. most circular arch stuff is " a lot of work" but it was always done even with hand tools. look at the 2 way sash routers specially for adding the decorative element on a circular window. in the thirties circles we're mandatory everywhere. but I particularly like the delicacy of handmade circular elements.

 

[niall Y]

it's just better for grain direction and smooth cuts.the same reason spindle are occasionally found with 2 opposite running spindles. just strike me that such a specialist tool and series of bits would make much specialist circular work really straightforward.



r

I know there are some spindles that have provision for router bits at the top of their shaft. If they had a reverse direction then this would solve one part of the problem. Also some stacking router cutters ( eg. slotting cutters,) can have their direction reversed - I'm sure we've all put them together some time in the past and wondered why the cut was so bad.

I encounter the problem of - less than ideal, grain direction - when cutting circular work on the overhead-router . And back-feeding is the only way to ease the problem, unless you can up-end the piece and work off the opposite face, which isn't always possible.

I've often seen old joinery items with mouldings running around corners in a very tight radius. And I've often wondered if this is spindle work, with a small radius cutter, or if it is evidence of early routers

 

[Spectric]

That’s exactly what you do on a spindle moulder to avoid blow out / running against the grain.

Can you explain more, what is the difference between moving your workpiece in the opposite direction compared to the cutter spinning in the other direction ? Is this yet another plus for the spindle !

 

[deema]

I know there are some spindles that have provision for router bits at the top of their shaft. If they had a reverse direction then this would solve one part of the problem. Also some stacking router cutters ( eg. slotting cutters,) can have their direction reversed - I'm sure we've all put them together some time in the past and wondered why the cut was so bad.

I encounter the problem of - less than ideal, grain direction - when cutting circular work on the overhead-router . And back-feeding is the only way to ease the problem, unless you can up-end the piece and work off the opposite face, which isn't always possible.

I've often seen old joinery items with mouldings running around corners in a very tight radius. And I've often wondered if this is spindle work, with a small radius cutter, or if it is evidence of early routers

Probably done using a French head, lovely hand eaters / missile launches and one of the reasons the spindle has its reputation.

 

[deema]

@Spectric if you look at the cut that was being done to rebate the arched head, on either side there is end grain. Ideally you want the cutter to turn into the stuff rather than turning out. If it turns out you’re going to end up with spelch. Reversing the direction of feed will make no difference to this. To make this you would spindle one side to the centre, reverse the cutter and spindle direction and then rebate the other side.

If you think about hand planing, you plane in the direction to ‘smooth’ the grain and not ruffle it, feeding from either side will not change the direction of the cut with respect to the grain direction.

 

[Jacob]

..... Jacob I've seen that way done loads but it's going in an arched stone opening that's only just tall enough. ....

No prob the outside shape would be the same, just arrived at by a different route.

 

[johnnyb]

just to say having multiple bearings made this method doable. these came from a batch of mostly trashed router cutters. they allow sensible cuts to be made meaning the very dodgy right hand end blowout zone can be carefully and gently climb cut. resulting in little or no blowout. if I pieced this in the middle that corner then has a triangle that will definaltly blow.