Who would go into this for a living??

[dicktimber]

I have looked at several posts from people considering going pro....well trying to make a living making things from wood etc.....

I have just completed a garden gazebo.
I researched designs, took photos, went out with the tape measure and progressively made drawings.
One of the market leaders advertise this particular gazebo, complete with feather edge roof and curved trusses for a kit price of £1500, with assembly another £500.

My costings for timber pressure treated, roof underfelt, floor decking screws etc came to arid £450....So whenI compared this price with the kit price, I concluded that at that stage I could make a killing if anyone wanted to buy a gazeebo from me......

That was until I looked back at my man hours, overheads, wear and tear, electric, heating.etc that go with making the components.
There were two dry fits, clamping together 6ft 6 in uprights that supported the roof structure to ensure angles and dimensions were correct.

People saw the structure going up and I had two people approach me to quote them for one when it was finished.
Come completion I invited the said people round to discuss time scales and price.
Now if I add a wage onto my £450 material cost, I would be well over £1200, and that still does not include overhead costs.

Both prospective buyers left when the price was revealed.
At least I can laugh at what people expect for their money...a Rolls Royce for the price of a Mini in many cases.
I can quote a grandfather clock in mahogany as another example.......but that I suppose is life.
I am glad I never went down the self employment route, it's a long way from the enjoyment of hobby woodworking.
I look at the poor guy at the gardening shows, and craft fairs with zillions of turned bowls, and blocks of wood with battery clocks inserted into them, and wonder if they ever, at least break even for thir efforts.

My advice would be think long and hard before giving up your daytime job.

Has anyone else had similar experiences??

Mike

 

[BradNaylor]

Well Mike,

I do do it for a living, and you are completely right!

The only way that I can concieve of making it pay is to make bespoke items from inexpensive materials using very efficient techniques.

This means that hand-made solid wood furniture is out of the window! Unless that is, you have a built up a name as an arty designer-maker.

If you are happy to compromise however, and make custom-made fitted furniture from MDF a decent income is distinctly possible so long as overheads are kept in check.

Most hobby woodworkers would be advised not to give up the day job, though!

Cheers
Dan

 

[mailee]

Yes Mike I agree completely with all you say. I also build them but luckily not for a living. :roll:

 

[Oryxdesign]

Well Mike,

I do do it for a living, and you are completely right!

The only way that I can concieve of making it pay is to make bespoke items from inexpensive materials using very efficient techniques.

This means that hand-made solid wood furniture is out of the window! Unless that is, you have a built up a name as an arty designer-maker.

If you are happy to compromise however, and make custom-made fitted furniture from MDF a decent income is distinctly possible so long as overheads are kept in check.

Most hobby woodworkers would be advised not to give up the day job, though!

Cheers
Dan

Nicely put Dan

 

[Niki]

Hi Mike

I didn't have an experience like yours but something in much smaller scale...

I made for my wife a few planters - actually, square boxes to plant small trees.

The material cost was around £8 but then, I had to add the screws, paint, electricity, tools etc.

One of the neighbors asked me "how much will cost such a box" and I replied £17...."well, I can buy it in the market for £12" said he...."so buy it in the market"....

What people will never understand is that, there are many factors that they don't see and for them, if the wood price is £8, "I'll give you another £3 for your work....it's only a box, not a big deal..."

Interestingly, when they buy it from the shop or company, they will pay the shop price without arguing...

Long time ago, I read an article by Paul Richardson that, to make money from woodworking you must produce in masses i.e. 5~10 same cabinets or tables or whatever otherwise, if you make 1 cabinet (order) and than another different cabinet, you waste a lot of time and have to charge very high price and not many will buy from you.

Take into consideration that the "big guys" (like Ikea) are not paying the same price as you do for the materials; are equipped with a lot of "robots" and can produce in an hour what you do in a month.....I've seen it on "How It's Made", a tenon in 3 seconds and mortise for 2 seconds and they fit like a glove...how long it would take you (or me)....

If this company that makes the gazebo is making only garden furniture, they are probably equipped with the correct machinery that not every woodworker can afford or will buy just to make 2~3 gazebos a year....and yes, they make good profit...

I think that if you'll concentrate on one or two products (that is very boring) and equip yourself with the correct machinery (and not with every new tool in the market ) you may see some profit but personally, I would not go for it...

niki

 

[CNC Paul]

Mike and Dan,

I whole heartily agree.

The only way that I can concieve of making it pay is to make bespoke items from inexpensive materials using very efficient techniques.

That was my reason for going down the CNC route. My work is split between bespoke items with expensive materials and lots of man hours ( my present job is on a £40m house... so money is not an issue) and being able to produce stuff with the CNC quickly with more detail and less cost than my competition. I still find there are people who think you are trying to rip them off .....Maybe we can thank Ikea for that.


Paul

 

[Doug B]

I`ve been self-employed 11 years, & was employed for 16 years before that.
I now work double the hours i did for not much more money, i have to pay my own pension, the tax man wants his money up-front, no more paid holidays, infact holidays are a thing of the past, i`m always looking for the next job & worrying if i`ll get my money in for the end of the month, to pay the bills that never fail to turn up.
Having said that i wouldn`t give it up, moneys not everything, but doing something you love to as a job is.

 

[Grinding One]

I went to Ikea,looked at a chair,pulled it backwards and it felt like balsa wood.I do not want anything to do with that stuff..a **** was looking at a chest and said to her friend I like this but its the wrong color,I told her they still sell spray paint at the hardware store.I can only imagaine her spraying that chest...
While I was at an auction lately I was asked what I did for a living,I told her I play around with a lot of tools.She asked me if I could make her an Island on wheels and out of hard wood and what would it cost? I asked her how big,do you want drawers?What kind of top? do you want shelves in it?She said you sure ask a lot of questions,I gave her a price and was told she could buy it cheaper at the local discount house...I told her shes going to get what she paid for and look to buying another a year or two down the road when the first one collapses.

 

[BradNaylor]

I forgot to mention the single most important attribute that a self-employed woodworker must have if he wants to earn good money;

It doesn't matter how many tools you've got or how fancy your workshop is.

It doesn't even matter whether you are a highly skilled craftsman or of average hobbyist ability...














You've got to be a salesman!

Cheers
Dan

 

[woodbloke]

I forgot to mention the single most important attribute that a self-employed woodworker must have if he wants to earn good money;

It doesn't matter how many tools you've got or how fancy your workshop is.

It doesn't even matter whether you are a highly skilled craftsman or of average hobbyist ability...














You've got to be a salesman!

Cheers
Dan

Dan - agree with your comments but would alter one thing. Change the world 'salesman' to 'businessman' It's a business first, woodworking second - Rob

 

[BradNaylor]

Of course you're right, Rob.

You've still got to be a bloody good salesman though, otherwise you've no business!

In the context of a bespoke furniture business, being a good salesman means selling oneself - not the furniture.

Dan

 

[The Shark]

Thought long and hard about going down the self-employed route a few years ago.
Having read lots of opinions on this forum, and talked to friends who are self-employed, I opted against it.
I still don't enjoy my day job, but love my hobby woodworking without all the pressures.

Malc

 

[wizer]

In the context of a bespoke furniture business, being a good salesman means selling oneself - not the furniture.

Which is why I both relish and hate being a pawn in a huge company, unknown even to my manager's manager but paid on time every month.

 

[BradNaylor]

In the context of a bespoke furniture business, being a good salesman means selling oneself - not the furniture.

Which is why I both relish and hate being a pawn in a huge company, unknown even to my manager's manager but paid on time every month.

Which is exactly why I have been self-employed since the age of 18!

 

[Escudo]

I agree Dan, however I would add that a big part of being self employed is about selling value.

I think, when dealing with a customer, it is far better to say - I can do that for £200 rather than - it will take 2 hours and I charge £100 per hour.

Tony.

 

[andychip38]

hi all just had to add to this thread i worked with my dad for 15 years as a carpenter then when he retired on my own for 5 and the last 5 my son has worked with me there is more to life than money 99% of the time i love my job and would do it for free but people pay me

 

[hpl]

Well I have also been self employed since 18. The advantage of that is I started at a time when there was no income pressure, but now with a wonderful family (wife & 4 kids) the risk would be much harder to take! I have regular customers but still have to work hard to make things happen and keep the customer happy, but I couldn't earn the money I do if I just worked in someone else's workshop. There are many jobs that pay more but would I want to do them? probably not. I love what I do and would hate to be working for someone else, but that is what I am used to.
As for being a salesman or business man, I've built up a good relationship with regular clients and those sort of become 'friends'. I don't like chasing money or sorting tax returns but all jobs have their downside. To me I'm happy being my own boss and plan to stay that way.

Johnny B

 

[BradNaylor]

I agree Dan, however I would add that a big part of being self employed is about selling value.

I think, when dealing with a customer, it is far better to say - I can do that for £200 rather than - it will take 2 hours and I charge £100 per hour.

Tony.

You're so right , Tony.

A big mistake some people make is to say to a customer 'That wardrobe will take me 4 days to make so that's £800 - plus materials at £200, so that's £1000.'

Chances are that the client doesn't earn £200 a day and will resent the fact that a 'mere tradesman' is making more than him.

Much better is simply to quote £1000 for a lovely wardrobe and let the client think what he likes about how that price is arrived at.

Cheers
Dan