Which Shoulder Plane

[stevel]

I was at Axminster PT today and looked at a LN 042 shoulder plane. The price (£131) was a bit offputting and as a newish woodworker made me think that maybe I could get a second hand Record for less money. A Record 42 from Oldtools is £111 including postage (free from APT). The Veritas medium shoulder plane is £125.

My question is obvious. Which is the best value, I like the idea of the grub screw adjustment of the blade on the veritas, only having to square it once, or as a beginner should I buy a Stanley shoulder plane for considerably less. I know you get what you pay for, but, do I need it for fitting my M&T joints is it a wish?

Steve

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

Hi Steve, I'm sure far more knowledgeable members will be along shortly, but I will give you my 2p's worth.
I am in the same boat too with regards to a shoulder plane, I currently have a Stanley 92 which I was given. Personally I think it is very very difficult to setup right, getting the blade slightly proud either side and also to take the same depth shaving is very troublesome.
I have taken a liking to the veritas, but the Lie-Nielsen has such an appeal because it looks so good, and having a couple other Lie-Nielsen items I assume it will perform flawlessly.
Whilst this debate is running through my mind for now I simply use a rasp to fit the tennon cheeks. I know that MikeW also favours this method as it was from one of his posts that I first tried using a rasp.

 

[Ace Karner]

I'm new here at least this is my first post so first off let me say a big ole Texas "Howdy Folks."

I would like to tag along on this thread if I may, I am also looking to buy a shoulder plane, I have decided to get a LV medium or large, so those of you who have used both, which one would you buy if you could only have one.

Ace

 

[Anonymous]

Steve

In general I prefer LN planes to LV, however, when it comes to the shoulder planes, I think the LV are the best by a margin and these are what I use - without any complaints

 

[MrJay]

Mine is a no name shop made wood infill thing with extra dovetails; £40 and cute as ****. Also, chisels are pretty good at tweaking shoulders.

 

[Frank D.]

I agree with Tony about LN vs. LV. I have a LN large shoulder; the Veritas large came out after I had bought mine, but if I had to buy again I'd go with Veritas. I've worked with it and find it more ergonomic than the LN. The set screws are also very handy on this type of plane.
If I had to choose one shoulder plane I'd go with a large one; my LV medium sees very limited use, although maybe because I use my rabbeting block plane for tenons and even for small shoulders.

 

[mr]

Don't forget these

http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Gordon.html

Mike

 

[Wiley Horne]

Hello Steve,

You asked if you need a shoulder plane to fit M&T joints. There are two aspects of this question--the shoulder fit and the cheek fit. Once you've been at it for a while, they will fit off the saw and that is the goal. But it's a stern test (tougher than dovetails IMO) and no one is born able to do it, so in the meantime there will be fitting to be done.

On fitting the tenon cheeks, you have options--large chisel, rasp, or a precise rebate plane (a shoulder plane is a type of rebate plane). For adjusting tenon shoulders, the shoulder plane is the most precise and controllable option (IMO). It is possible to use a chisel for the shoulders, but it's really easy to foul the ends while adjusting the sides.

Opinions continue....I have a Stanley 93, and it's not in the same quality league as the others you mentioned, but still will usually cost a considerable sum. Among the other three, the price differences are not decisive. Pick the one that gives you the warm furry feeling.

Ace, you asked a tough question, because it depends on what you'll be doing the most of. The medium size would be the most comfortable for tenon shoulders, but the large will do that job just fine. And on the other hand, the large shoulder is very good for detailing raised panels, is a better size for tenon cheeks (if you don't use a rasp or chisel), and can double as a full-sized rebate plane in a pinch. IMO, the large shoulder has more functionality if you're not going to have one of everything. But it's big iron compared to the medium shoulder, so how do you feel about that?

Wiley

 

[Routermonster]

Hi Steve

Here's my contribution ...

I had the opportunity to compare the LV medium shoulder plane with the LN 042 before buying one. They were both well finished. The LN looked gorgeous compared to the unusual appearance of the LV, but when I picked them up and handled them the LV won hands down (no pun intended). The various holes and cutouts plus the adjustable knob meant that I quickly found a comfortable position for my hands with their short fingers! The adjusting screws on the sides are useful too. Since getting it home, I haven't done much trimming with it (yet), but it's a pleasure to pick up and use. And its looks grow on you after a while - not that it matters ... So, I haven't been disappointed. There is a review by Alf on this forum.

Hope this helps.

Les

 

[Ace Karner]

Wiley, every point you made about the Large plane made sense to me, I tend to use the largest of my bench planes that will suit the job instead of the other way round.

I'll be sending Rob an order in the morning. Thanks for the reply.

Ace

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Steve

When I reviewed the LV Medium shoulder plane, I compared it to two other 3/4" wide shoulder planes, the Stanley #92 and the HNT Gordon.

In the action of cutting all can do a super job. It is in the area of ergonomics and set up that the LV scores. I still find its looks lag behind others, especially the Gordon, but it is a superior tool.

If I were to own just one shoulder plane, it would be wider than 3/4". This width is great for just trimming the end grain in shoulders, but you would not want to use it on the cross grain of the faces (not enough registration/top heavy). So my go-to shoulder plane (other than grabbing what is sharp!) is a 1 1/4" wide infill. This lacks all the bells-and-whistles, but is a great alrounder.

My review is at:
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/z_art/LVShoulder/index.asp

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

I recommend the L-N large 1 1/4" shoulder plane which will do everything.

The one thing I am sure about is that the old Record shoulder planes were badly made, needed considerable tuning and had a thin blade of debateable quality. At current S/H tool shop prices these are not a good value.

We tuned and used the Record for my students over a 20 year period and the later ones were much worse than the earlier.

Both L-N and Veritas are well machined with thick quality blades.

For the finest work all shoulder planes will need a little tuning as the sole is flat before the spin wheel has applied force to the blade. This distorts the sole behind the throat.

David

 

[Alf]

Welcome to the forum, Ace.

Steve,

Size; I've always advocated large. A large can do what a medium can plus some more. Some people find them too large to handle, but to be honest if I can (with my notoriously freaky hands) then anyone can.

Model; hideous as **** but the Veritas are just so much more pleasant to set up, especially for the tyro.

NB; I like my Record 073 and I'm not ashamed to say so. But then I got mine before they jumped in price when the LN version came out. But I agree; with the wide range of new and improved models available now they're really not worth their current prices.

If you want to try a Veritas medium, Record 073 and a Philly HNT Gordon-a-like drop me a PM. Unfortunately I don't have quite as large a range to demo as Phil probably does, but it's a fairly good cross-section of size and type.

Cheers, Alf

 

[George_N]

I'm new here at least this is my first post so first off let me say a big ole Texas "Howdy Folks."

I would like to tag along on this thread if I may, I am also looking to buy a shoulder plane, I have decided to get a LV medium or large, so those of you who have used both, which one would you buy if you could only have one.

Ace

Hi Ace, Welcome to the forum.

 

[Ace Karner]

Thanks to everyone for your replies, I have lurked here awhile and I find the knowledge here simply outstanding.

What an absolute wonder this internet has become, I don't know if I would have ever made inroads into galootism without it.

I'll let ya all know what I think of the LV Large shoulder plane I just ordered after I cut the tenons on the four doors I'll be making for a TV Cabinet I'm making in White Oak. Sure could have picked an easier wood to learn to cut tenons on Huh?

Thanks again,
Ace

Oh by the way, might as well post my first gloat, I recently received my Mike W Kenyon Large Tenon saw so I guess that I will have no excuse except my own shortcomings if I can't do decent tenons.

 

[stevel]

Thanks to everyone for your prompt replies. I want to principly use the plane for shoulders and so I think I will go with a LV. Since Yandles show is just around the corner I will hopefully be able to try them there. At least no one suggested it was worth buying a Stanley, even at (only) £80 they do not seem good value!

Steve