Which powertool to get first?

[heimlaga]

Well....... that sounds like a distorted caricature of my opinion. Could it be that Tasky has missunderstood me?

I use to say say that a small bandsaw cannot resaw to it's full capacity with a reasonable feed rate. Because the wheels are too small to take a stiff enough blade and the frame too weak to tension it.

If you aren't going to resaw wide boards regularly that isn't going to matter too much but if such resawing is important to you there is no substitute for a big and solid bandsaw which is bound to either cost a fortune or be very old and beaten up like mine was before I rebuilt it.

However small bandsaws are qite adequate for lots of other uses than that. Especially the better models.

 

[Tasky]

Well....... that sounds like a distorted caricature of my opinion. Could it be that Tasky has missunderstood me?

I don't think it was you that posted it, chap...
post1162713.html#p1162713

If you aren't going to resaw wide boards regularly that isn't going to matter too much but if such resawing is important to you there is no substitute for a big and solid bandsaw which is bound to either cost a fortune or be very old and beaten up like mine was before I rebuilt it.

I was considering resawing some boards, about 100-150mm, simply so I could edge-joint them and not have to pay a timber yard to do it, along with the planing and so on... but if it's cheaper to have them do all that for me, then it's not a factor.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

5 3/4" perfectly clean rip in beech worktop. It's not even a particularly good saw and it's done with a Dremel resharpened M42 (I hit a plasterboard screw with it ).

 

[Tasky]

It's not even a particularly good saw and it's done with a Dremel resharpened M42

Woodstar SB12?

 

[dzj]

Hi all!


If I only wanted to spend £200 today on one of the above tools, which should I start with? I was thinking about getting the Titan tablesaw from screwfix as a 'my first table saw'. But some reviews of it are good, and some of the reviews say it should be thrown away. I'm not sure if it will just frustrate me as I'm unable to set it up properly, especially given my lack of experience.

Thank you!
Paul

For £109.99 INC VAT that tablesaw looks OK, I guess. You'd need to buy a proper blade or 2 for it and the rip fence
probably needs some altering and you'd have to make a crosscut sled....but it could work.
Some tweaking will be necessary, like with all stationary tools, few if any work 'out of the box'.
If you are mechanically inclined, then second hand machinery is the best bet when you're strapped for cash.
Otherwise the Titan or some such saw.
HTH

 

[Phil Pascoe]

SB12? Yes.

 

[ColeyS1]

So is it true, or not?
Opinions on this stuff vary so wildly and unless people are being sarcastic for the sake of it, this looks to be one seriously expensive 'hobby'...

Yeah it can be- you can spend as much or as little as you like on it.
Spend megabucks and the process could take 5 minutes. Spend much less and the process could take 10 minutes, require a little bit of practice and perseverance,but end up with exactly the same results,probably be a little more satisfying ! Money can't buy skill, determination can though.



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[Tasky]

Yeah it can be- you can spend as much or as little as you like on it.

See, that was the difficulty I was having with the earlier advice.
Like the OP, I anticipate still needing some hand tools, chisels, planes and what-have-you... but the advice was often either doing *everything* by hand, or dropping a mortgage on power tools, neither of which is an option for me - I'm not apprenticing or going professional. This is just something I can do of a weekend to make some custom-designed Christmas presents and things.

Spend much less and the process could take 10 minutes, require a little bit of practice and perseverance,but end up with exactly the same results,probably be a little more satisfying !

I've no problem with that. I kinda do it already, but with the inconvenience of knackering myself handsawing everything badly!

BTW - Sorry to hijack yer thread, OP!!

 

[custard]

this looks to be one seriously expensive 'hobby'...

If you want to make furniture then by the time you add everything up you're probably talking thousands not hundreds. Some people work miracles with a couple of hundred quid of hand tools, but they're few and far between as pure hand work is physically quite demanding and it takes a lot of self discipline and determination to acquire the necessary skills.

The other thing many newcomers to woodworking don't appreciate is that sourcing quality hardwood is by no means easy or cheap. To make a typical one drawer side table in Cherry or Oak will cost nearly £100 in timber, to make it in Walnut would cost about £130. Furthermore, if you really want consistently good quality then you have to get down to the timber yard in person. Getting good hardwood boards, in small quantities, delivered to your door, with the convenience of internet shopping; well it just doesn't happen.

The worst thing is to buy a couple of bargain basement new Chinese machines. There's every chance you'll be so frustrated with the inaccuracy that you'll quit woodwork in disgust, but you'll then find that your few hundred pounds of investment is now virtually worthless.

 

[Tasky]

If you want to make furniture then by the time you add everything up you're probably talking thousands not hundreds.

Exactly. I've not really known another hobby like it... aside from perhaps horse-riding and car racing.

The other thing many newcomers to woodworking don't appreciate is that sourcing quality hardwood is by no means easy or cheap. To make a typical one drawer side table in Cherry or Oak will cost nearly £100 in timber, to make it in Walnut would cost about £130.

See, that's the part I was surprised at - What you've quoted there is a lot less than what I would have expected!!

 

[roflson]

ok so consensus seems to be that a bandsaw is the way forward for that money, can anyone recommend a bandsaw, with a stand, for around £200?

I saw the one above (Metabo BAS 261) but I would need that + a stand + another blade which I guess would be an extra £60 on top? Maybe that's the best option, is the table a little small though if I wanted to crosscut?

 

[ColeyS1]

Instead of a stand, could you not just sit it on your bench ? Or pick up an old black & decker workmate from the tip or bootsale ? Maybe knock one up out of some old 3x2 ?
That was the only saw I could find for the money that would cut 4inchs. Anything bigger and the cost went up considerably.
I'd also budget for atleast 2 bandsaw blades for it, minimum. A fine and a courser blade for ripping. I think you'd be doing well to have one blade doing everything- it could only lead to dissapointment.

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[Phil Pascoe]

Bandsaws are fine for cutting tenons - build your own stand. A small table isn't too much of a handicap as long as you're not cutting stuff yards long. That's a little small for an M42 blade, but if you get a couple of different ones you'll find out what suits you. I'd stick to an 1/8th" or 3mm under what the manufacturers say is the maximum - they always go on the optimistic side.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I would go another way! Realistically, you are not going to make stuff from sawn hardwood without the machines to convert it into usable material. A biggish bandsaw and an accurate surface planer/thicknesser will be the minimum here and 200 pounds is not going to make a dent in that. A tiny tin toy bandsaw is a bad use of that money, IMHO. Anything that bandsaw could do, can be done with handsaws, a bowsaw, coping saw etc. It will take effort to do so, it will keep you fit, but none the less, it is doable. I think for starting out, you will be using timber merchants softwood PAR. You will likely want to do some rip cuts to resize this which is easy with a hardpoint handsaw and a good plane. You'll have to plane after bandsawing anyway. Crosscutting is easy and just as accurate (more accurate?) than bandsawing. A tenon saw is a better bet.

If you do decide to try making stuff from sawn hardwood, what is a little bandsaw going to do for you with big boards of timber? And the dimensioning by handplane is harder work than sawing, especially if you have no bench. I can't see a 200 pound bandsaw being anything other than a poor use of money.

Given that I had all the handtools I needed and a bench, and if not I would spend the money on these first, I would spend on a router. Firstly, you will get a decent one for that money, one that will progress with you as you get more involved in your hobby. Or sell for a reasonable amount if you decide not to continue. Something like:

https://www.trenddirectuk.com/t5eb?gcli ... gLYZvD_BwE

this will leave you some money for some bits.

A router will enable you to make housings, rebate, groove, add edge details, chamfers, mouldings etc, and produce mortice and tenon joints with some shop made jigs. For me, it is a no brainer.

Mike.

 

[roflson]

Hi Woodbrains,

I actually already have a router which I'm borrowing from a friend indefinitely at the moment.

That all sounds possible with hand tools, but knowing me, I'm far more likely to give up woodworking because I've spent 3 hours trying to get one edge straight with a hand saw and a plane and then subsequently running out of width and having to start again.

At this point I have no desire to become a master at squaring wood by hand, I'd rather get to the 'fun stuff' as they say. If that means saving up and buying better stationary tools then that's what I'll do instead, rather than get frustrated at spending a whole weekend squaring 4 pieces of wood.

 

[woodbrains]

=P~

Hi Woodbrains,

I actually already have a router which I'm borrowing from a friend indefinitely at the moment.

That all sounds possible with hand tools, but knowing me, I'm far more likely to give up woodworking because I've spent 3 hours trying to get one edge straight with a hand saw and a plane and then subsequently running out of width and having to start again.

At this point I have no desire to become a master at squaring wood by hand, I'd rather get to the 'fun stuff' as they say. If that means saving up and buying better stationary tools then that's what I'll do instead, rather than get frustrated at spending a whole weekend squaring 4 pieces of wood.

I understand, but a tinny little bandsaw isn't going to help much. If you are not prepared to learn to use a handplane for straightening, squaring, removing material to an accurate dimension, all needing to be done after bandsawing anyway, then I feel woodwork might not be for you. most of woodworking is doing such tasks and actually IS the fun bits!

Trust me, the reasons for getting machinery is not primarily to take make the work easier or get to the fun bits, but make it quicker with accuracy. There are lots of ways to get things done quicker, but if accuracy is not there, it is actually counter productive and the remedy is, you've guessed it, squaring and trueing with hand tools. Tools that have the necessary accuracy are not inexpensive. It is just the way it is. Machine woodworking is not a cheap thing to do. Custard alluded to it in an earlier post, and many here will agree. Cheap tools cannot be as accurate as the ones that cost 10 times more, it cannot be done. Used industrial machines are the most inexpensive way to achieve what you want. But that path is another story.

Mike.

 

[dynax]

Which powertool to get first, it all comes down to what you want make/build, there is no one tool that does all, but you need to consider what will you be doing the most of, if you plan to use sheet materials then a track saw would handle that comfortably, if using solid timber softwoods/hardwoods, you need to consider in what form you will be buying it in, softwoods can be rough sawn, par or large section timber, hardwoods are usually sold as sawn, or live edge, when i started my first was a table saw, it allowed me to cut sheets, and resaw, and it makes squaring easier, i can cut an edge that will glue up without the need to plane, it can crosscut to any length with appropiate jigs etc, mitre cuts are a doddle much easier on a table saw than a bandsaw, making sleds for different jobs is fun in itself aswel, there is just about every jig for doing just about anything on table saw if you look online for them, have a google for Izzy Swann, he does some amazing things on his table saw but be warned it's not for the faint hearted watching him, so which ever tool you buy you need to think is it fit for purpose to do the job you want it for, as for price my table saw was a shade over £200, but my other tools come in at less than £150 each, HTH,

 

[roflson]

Hi dynax, which table saw do you have if I may ask?

 

[ColeyS1]

What a load of balls !
So my £200 metabo bandsaw won't be able to cut as accurately as my huge Axminster bandsaw ? A 12mm ovolo cutter in a router table, won't be able to cut as accurately as my spindle moulder ? I've never heard such nonsense !!!!!! Sounds like you need to service your machines and change the bearings !

Bandsaw, Planer thicknesser and chopsaw capable of Trench cuts in that order if you want to make life easier


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[dynax]

Hi dynax, which table saw do you have if I may ask?

i have a scheppach hs105, i got from toolstop for £209.00 delivered, it's gone up to £243.00 now, http://www.toolstop.co.uk/scheppach-hs1 ... 40v-p72415 but still good value imho,