Which Plane?

[ByronBlack]

I'm hoping some of you experts can help my out here with a basic question.

I'm having to do quite a lot of scarf joints (at a 10degree angle) for guitar headstocks, my first couple of attempts have been a disaster.

The problems i'm having are:

1. Finding it very difficult to cut a 10 angle into the stock. i've tried hand-sawing and bandsawing and find it hard to cut a straight cut, any idea's/techniques to help with this?

2. Once the cut is made, I need to plane it smooth for a good glue-join. I've used a faithful block plane without much success, the same goes with a fine-cut surform. Any hints on what would be a good plane for this job?

I hope all that makes sense..

 

[Philly]

Byron
Sounds like you need some kind of jig to hold the neck as you plane it-like a mitre block.
Cheers
Philly

 

[Chris Knight]

As Philly suggests a jig would be helpful - so too would a tool with a blade wide enough to cut across the entire surface - much less chance that way of creating multiple planes of contact. I would have though a 5 1/2 sized plane would be OK for this.

I suggest you get the catalogue issued by Stewart McDonald's Guitar Shop Supply http://www.stewmac.com/ - they have all sorts of stuff for building guitars.

Their site appears to be down at the moment though.

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for the reponse guys.

Phill - I'll put some thought to your suggestion but not sure exactly how to approach this - any idea's?

Waterhead, i'm well-versed with stew-macs, been ordering from them for a little while now, and to be honest the slow-service, inflated prices and import duty make it difficult for me to justify buying from them.

Thanks for the suggestion on the plane though.

 

[mudman]

This guy, http://www.osborneatelier.com/building2.htm uses a block plane.

 

[Philly]

Byron
Something like this should be perfect-thanks to Alf.. :wink:
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwmitrejack.html
Cheers
Philly
P.s.If not how about a WoodRat?? :roll:

 

[mudman]

You can also just use a plane to make the joint.
If you're scarfing two pieces together, you place one piece on top of the other then move the top piece back to the length of the scarf joint. You mark this length on the top piece and then plane the wood away between the end of the bottom piece and the mark on the top.
As you want a precise angle, then you can calculate the length of the scarf by trig. That is, length = thickness / tan 10

So long as you don't plane away any length from the bottom piece and don't go past the mark on the top, then the angle will be pretty accurate. I would suggest a decent sized plane for it though, and clamping them together of course.

 

[ByronBlack]

This guy, http://www.osborneatelier.com/building2.htm uses a block plane.

Thats a very good tutorial, thanks mudman, i'm doing it almost similar apart from using the japanese saw - I've seen them at axminster, so I think i'll make a purchase, it seems my block plane is able to do the task, I guess I just need to practice my honing and planning skills more..

 

[ByronBlack]

Byron
Something like this should be perfect-thanks to Alf.. :wink:
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwmitrejack.html
Cheers
Philly
P.s.If not how about a WoodRat?? :roll:

That jig looks like it could be useful, i'll add that to my growing bookmark list!

I see the woodrat advertised and mentioned everywhere, but to be honest with you looking at the price and what it is I don't fully understand it's value and usefulness - and i've spent most of my start-up budget and have very little left

 

[MikeW]

Hi Byron and all...

Here's mine.

It's a large mahogany miter jack at nearly 24” when closed. Just bought this one, actually. But, on my previous one, I have used jaw "liners" that are cut at different angles from 2" stock, squeezed between the jaws on the work in order to miter different angles.

I've also used a protractor to line up the work to the main jaws. Either works.

Mike

 

[ydb1md]

I'd like to suggest a different approach.

If you have a miter or chop saw, a high quality blade will give you a super clean cut that won't require any sanding. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t.../ref=sr_1_5/102-8624143-6015327?v=glance&s=hi

Because no miter saw can cut a 10-degree angle, you'll have to make a jig (just a block cut at 80 degrees) that you can use to orient your pieces to be cut.

To make sure that the cut is the same on each piece that you want to join with your scarf joint, lay the two pieces beside each other and cut them both at the same time. To ensure that the grain that you want to match is going to be at the right location, place the grain face to face as you're making the cut. I can take some pictures at home this evening if that would help.

By cutting the pieces at the same time and with a high quality blade, you should get the joint that you're after. I usually opt for the hand tool approach but with the volume that you're after and needing repeatable results, I think a miter saw is the way to go.

 

[bugbear]

If you have a miter or chop saw, a high quality blade will give you a super clean cut that won't require any sanding.

A planed surface is far better for glueing.

Thinking aloud, I would make a (semi-rough) 10 degree ramp, and fudge together a way of fixing the neck to it. The required face is now horizontal.

I would then make 2 "cheek pieces" from identical parallel planks. Arrange a cheek on either side of the workpiece, with a spacer.

A suitable size plane should be able to run heel on one cheek, toe on the other, and blade on the work piece.

This jigged plane should give a super accurate, and highly finished result.

I suppose it's sort of a customised vertical shooting board.

BugBear

 

[ByronBlack]

That sounds like a good idea bugbear - would my faithfull block plane be up to the job, or should I invest in something better? Also, what would be stopping the plane from planning the cheek pieces as well?

 

[bugbear]

would my faithfull block plane be up to the job, or should I invest in something better? Also, what would be stopping the plane from planning the cheek pieces as well?

2 questions, one answer. The reason the cheeks don't get planed is they're "far enough" apart. And the heel (and toe) of the plane rests on the cheeks with the blade in the middle, where the work is.

Thus the plane needs to be "long enough", which yours isn't.

BugBear

 

[ByronBlack]

I see - thanks for that bugbear! Looks like i'll be in the market for a new plane!

 

[bugbear]

Looks like i'll be in the market for a new plane!

It's not that your block plane is a bad plane, but for my suggestion it's the wrong plane.

I would recommend something fairly long, certainly #5 (14") or more.

This isn't a difficult planing task (it's "down" the grain) so a cheap s/h #6 would probably be ideal.

If you other planing tasks in mind, you'd need to take them into account before settling on your chosen "working set"

Unless you're going to do what the rest of do, and eventually buy one of each...

BugBear

 

[ByronBlack]

Looks like i'll be in the market for a new plane!

It's not that your block plane is a bad plane, but for my suggestion it's the wrong plane.

I would recommend something fairly long, certainly #5 (14") or more.

This isn't a difficult planing task (it's "down" the grain) so a cheap s/h #6 would probably be ideal.

If you other planing tasks in mind, you'd need to take them into account before settling on your chosen "working set"

Unless you're going to do what the rest of do, and eventually buy one of each...

BugBear

I would like to be able to buy of each, but at the moment it's unfeasible. This scarfing will be one of my main tasks along with jointing and thicknessing, I do have a power jointer, but I would like to be able to do this by hand.

 

[Colin C]

I have a tip I have used for years.
Try to get your block plane as sharp as you can ( the sharper the better )
Start in the middle of your block with circles and work your way out but you must keap cheching that is flat. It might take you alittle while to get used to but it is what I have done for a long time ( 21 years an Antique restorer ),
well thats one more for the pot. :wink:
I almost forgot, also try a damp cloth ( wipe the grain it, it helps the plane cut better), just not to wet.