Which Plane Next

[shed9]

Woodmatt, tell your friend to get himself to the carboot at the Carmarthen showground early on Sunday morning. There is a guy there that cleans up old Stanley's and Records that he gets from one source. I've had a few type 11 Stanley's off him at reasonable prices. I know he frequents the Ffairfach boot sale just outside Llandielo as well which I think is on every last Saturday of the month (might need to check that). To be fair the amount of work he puts into the planes pretty much offsets the actual selling price IMO and he is happy to haggle.

It's worth asking him if he has any abrasives if you see him yourself. I've known him sell new & sealed boxes of Abranet of various grits at £8 a box.

Also, just noticed your note on my Incra thread - sorry hadn't updated that post for a while. Will drop you a PM later when I get a chance.

 

[ED65]

Thanks ED65 I just had a look on Gumtree but cannot find them,maybe they are already sold ! I am about 90 miles away so a fair old trek but still do able.

They appear to still be up (the typo in the title may have prevented them from coming up in your search). I'll send you the link in a PM so they don't get poached, in case you are interested after seeing the pics.

 

[ED65]

I have been making medium and small stuff the last couple of years, and don't remember the last time I used a block plane

This is a horses for courses type of thing. I only make small and medium stuff and use a block plane all the time. Now that I have both a regular type and a low-angle I'll be using two block planes all the time

I'm just finishing off an oilstone box to house a small Washita I've been meaning to put back into service for far too long (bought it in the 80s, haven't really used it since I took up woodworking) and almost all of the last bits of planing I did with my new/old 9 1/2. I could have just as easily done the work with a 4 I suppose, but I generally prefer to use something smaller for small pieces as I'm used to it from my first days when all I had to work with was a block plane.

 

[Corneel]

Well, that's perfectly allright of course, a good block plane is a pleasure to use, but when you allready have a #4 and the budget is tight, then a block plane wouldn't be my first priority either.

The friend would be wise to look into second hand tools indeed. Good stuff to be found at very good prices. A longer plane could easilly be a woody, they are usually dirt cheap.

 

[Woodmatt]

Thanks for the link ED65 I have just replied to your PM,thanks also shed9 I am unable to get there this Sunday but I will let the lad know and hopefully he can get there.Is the guy at Carmarthen every Sunday do you know? It certainly looks like the best bet is the secondhand route at the current time, as to which plane he gets next is going to be down to what he is most comfortable with after taking in all the advice you have given,all of which I have passed on to him.
Cheshirechappie thanks for the link,I have downloaded the PDF which looks really interesting for both this lad and myself,so many interesting projects.

 

[Woodmatt]

Does anyone know of anywhere on the web where there are details of Krenov's planes.After everything that has been said on this post I quite fancy investigating the idea of making one or two planes for myself and I know he made a number of good planes or is there anywhere else on the web I should be looking,thanks.

 

[D_W]

you don't really need special instruction for laminated planes. There is a purchasable video made by someone named david fink or finck in the US that gets a whole lot of press, but the basic idea behind those tools is that you can make them quickly and without specialty hand skill.

One thing is true, though, and that is that a bailey plane is a better platform for everyday use than something like a krenov unless the work is very light work. Unless you can find a junk iron, it will cost about as much to build a krenov plane with a new iron, and for some reason, there is a fascination with them to use narrow irons, one that I can't really follow.

(I'll say this much if you try the type...make them a bit long and then cut ends off until you find a comfortable mouth location and comfortable proportions).

 

[ED65]

Does anyone know of anywhere on the web where there are details of Krenov's planes.After everything that has been said on this post I quite fancy investigating the idea of making one or two planes for myself

There are many builds and a few articles online I can point you to or post images of.

Do you want pure Krenov or just a plane with the separate cheeks glued to central blocks, to simplify construction?

More conventional woodies (allowing the use of vintage or modern double irons) can be made with less effort than carving from the solid by splitting the plane into two, you saw and chisel the waste from each piece and then glue the halves together, with or without dowels to prevent creep. The Hayward book linked to above has a couple of examples of this method.

If you want to start with something nice and quick make a finger plane first. These are dinky enough that just a small offcut will provide the necessary wood, although you can mix species and glue on a wear sole if you want to make them a bit more elaborate. Either way, the work is easily completed in a single afternoon if you have something suitable for the iron (an old firmer chisel makes a good donor if you don't mind cutting one up).

They're so simple you can even mass-produce them as Alan Dunwell shows here.

 

[ED65]

Well, that's perfectly allright of course, a good block plane is a pleasure to use, but when you allready have a #4 and the budget is tight, then a block plane wouldn't be my first priority either.

As useful as I find mine it is easily argued that other planes should take priority.

But given the location I was assuming buying secondhand from the outset, meaning the budget would be quite generous. So picking up a block plane wouldn't get in the way of buying more significant pieces of kit. Judging by the going rates at car boots in the UK a block plane is unlikely to cost as much as a cappuccino on the high street

We're all doing a lot of guesswork here and here's some of mine: a low-angle block plane may be the lad's first entrée to being able to plane end grain, which might not be an everyday need but when you want to but can't it becomes a bit of an obstacle. Now anyone with enough skill at sharpening can usually do this with a no. 4, but few learners are that proficient so an end-grain specialist could be a revelation.

 

[MIGNAL]

I use mine virtually every day. Then again my work does tend to be on the small size but I'd be completely lost without a little trim plane. I vary rarely use my Stanley 60.5 or my higher angle Quangsheng. It's either the Veritas apron or the lighter Stanley 102.

 

[D_W]

Does anyone know of anywhere on the web where there are details of Krenov's planes.After everything that has been said on this post I quite fancy investigating the idea of making one or two planes for myself

There are many builds and a few articles online I can point you to or post images of.

Do you want pure Krenov or just a plane with the separate cheeks glued to central blocks, to simplify construction?

More conventional woodies (allowing the use of vintage or modern double irons) can be made with less effort than carving from the solid by splitting the plane into two, you saw and chisel the waste from each piece and then glue the halves together, with or without dowels to prevent creep. The Hayward book linked to above has a couple of examples of this method.

If you want to start with something nice and quick make a finger plane first. These are dinky enough that just a small offcut will provide the necessary wood, although you can mix species and glue on a wear sole if you want to make them a bit more elaborate. Either way, the work is easily completed in a single afternoon if you have something suitable for the iron (an old firmer chisel makes a good donor if you don't mind cutting one up).

They're so simple you can even mass-produce them as Alan Dunwell shows here.

There is enough going on in a double iron plane that I think it's worth making it out of solid (the biggest challenge there is actually finding the solid). It does take a couple to really get one nice, but ...all of this leads to a question that I'll post in another thread with a survey.

the dunwell planes are a different animal, they are purpose made small luthier's planes, their performance across a wide spectrum isn't that important, they will do small work.

Someone building furniture who only smooths, maybe the same is true - there isn't that much demand on a plane to smooth - any common pitch plane with a double iron will smooth anything that can be planed. If the urge comes to work across a wider range of things (heavy and not so heavy work), then design of the plane becomes more important.

I think a person could make a stripped down handle-less version of a double iron plane (where neatness isn't that important) in less than 5 hours - mortised. Just keep the wear short, no eyes (as the modern chinese planes are made without them, too), and nothing fancy for the wedge. The finished plane would still be a better and more stable plane with a longer lifespan than a glued plane with a wedge and pin in the mortise.

 

[MIGNAL]

The Dunwells are more of a thumb plane, virtually always bevel down. Even the small 102 is like 4 times the size of the largest thumb plane. Thumb planes aren't the most comfortable to use either. I know, I have a number of them. Even made a few of my own.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Does anyone know of anywhere on the web where there are details of Krenov's planes.After everything that has been said on this post I quite fancy investigating the idea of making one or two planes for myself and I know he made a number of good planes or is there anywhere else on the web I should be looking,thanks.

Here's an illustrated blog post by planemaker Gerd Fritsche, showing the making of a Krenov plane;

http://traditional-handplanes.com/GFTH_ ... nov-plane/

The blade and cap-iron pairs can be bought from Classic Hand Tools, but they're quite expensive. Other options are to look for a secondhand double iron on Ebay, or even a new Stanley-type double iron; I think Krenov used to cut them to length, but a perfectly usable plane could be made with a full-length iron.

Googling 'Krenov planes' will bring up plenty of other sites and information, though.

 

[Woodmatt]

Now I am confused,one piece,laminated,Krenov.
I would like to make something that is both practical and beautiful to look at.I love the lines of some of the "Krenov"style planes but was not aware until it was mentioned that they were laminated.The Hayward book suggested by Cheshirechappie gives some detail on making both types and I may well try doing both.D_W I did come across a downloadable PDF of David Finck's which I have done and that also is very interesting and very informative.As I said earlier I may just try making both.

 

[Woodmatt]

In the David Finck book he seems to suggest that Ash would be a good timber for making planes.About a year and a half ago I had a large Ash tree come down in my garden which at the time was just chainsawed(if there is such a word) up for logs for my log burner but there are a number of pieces that may be a suitable size for making some planes.Do member think this would be an ok timber to use?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

In the David Finck book he seems to suggest that Ash would be a good timber for making planes.About a year and a half ago I had a large Ash tree come down in my garden which at the time was just chainsawed(if there is such a word) up for logs for my log burner but there are a number of pieces that may be a suitable size for making some planes.Do member think this would be an ok timber to use?

Don't see why not, especially if you can find a couple of nice quarter-sawn pieces. Anybody's first plane is as much a practice piece as anything else - even joinery grade pine could be made to serve. A technique used by both professional and amateur plane-makers is to use a thin piece of very hard wood glued on for the sole, which is a nice little luxury - and would make a pine bodied plane into a quite decent tool. It's not essential - the beauty of wooden planes is that the sole can be trued up if it wears.

 

[MIGNAL]

Krenov planes are laminated. I made a number of them but better :wink: They work perfectly well and stand up to everyday use as long as you use a decent glue, not that plastic/rubbery rubbish that they call PVA.
Ash is probably OK providing it's dry. It might not be the most stable of timber but neither is Beech. It's open grained but that's hardly a problem.

 

[D_W]

Krenov planes are laminated. I made a number of them but better :wink: They work perfectly well and stand up to everyday use as long as you use a decent glue, not that plastic/rubbery rubbish that they call PVA.
Ash is probably OK providing it's dry. It might not be the most stable of timber but neither is Beech. It's open grained but that's hardly a problem.

If anything can be sawn well, it'll make a good plane. Apple and Beech are two favorites here in the states, and they are about the worst behaved woods I have seen drying and moving.

But sawn on center, they make great planes and saw handles. The only problem is that it is uncommon to see large billets of either sawn both quartered and pith on center.

Ash should work fine, it's similar density to beech and weight can always be added.

 

[D_W]

In the David Finck book he seems to suggest that Ash would be a good timber for making planes.About a year and a half ago I had a large Ash tree come down in my garden which at the time was just chainsawed(if there is such a word) up for logs for my log burner but there are a number of pieces that may be a suitable size for making some planes.Do member think this would be an ok timber to use?

Don't see why not, especially if you can find a couple of nice quarter-sawn pieces. Anybody's first plane is as much a practice piece as anything else - even joinery grade pine could be made to serve. A technique used by both professional and amateur plane-makers is to use a thin piece of very hard wood glued on for the sole, which is a nice little luxury - and would make a pine bodied plane into a quite decent tool. It's not essential - the beauty of wooden planes is that the sole can be trued up if it wears.

Weight is a big problem with pine and other lightweight woods. A very light wood plane is similar to shooting a heavy caliber featherweight rifle...unpleasant.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I'm not suggesting that pine is an ideal plane-making wood, just that it's a cheap and easy option for a first attempt 'practice' plane. A harder wood sole would make it a much better job.

As to weight - well, some people like a lighter plane.....