Which Plane Combo for A to Z Finishing?

[Friedrich]

I'm looking to purchase several hand planes (used vintage record/stanley) to be able to tackle various projects and to be able to do 95% of the work with handtools

I currently got a £8 record no4 which I'm planing to convert to be a scrub plane (camber the blade/widen the mouth).

This is my plan so far:
- for the first step -rapid stock removal and general roughing up/shaping I will have the no4 record scrubber
-Than to start level everything properly I'm thinking about purchasing a no5 or no 5.5 jackplane?
- Than For jointing large pieces I'm looking to purchase a no7
-And finally I need something for smoothing out and finishing Like a no3 or no4? I'm not really sure what kind of plane would be the best for this step or even if I need a smaller plane if I will already have a no5? what would you suggest?

-Also I plan to purchase an old record/stanley no80 cabinet scraper to almost replace my sander with so I need to sand as little as possible.

I will be mostly using the handplanes to finish 3ft-7ft long boards.

What do you think about my plan? What should I change or add or remove from the list?
I would like to have as little tools as possible, but still have everything I need to do everything properly without faffing around.

 

[AndyT]

Ignore the fashion for messing up no 4s and get a proper wooden jack plane for initial sizing. Unless you are riving your own wood, you need a Jack not a Scrub. A proper wooden jack should cost very little at a boot fair or used tool dealer. A jack plane has a properly cambered iron, a wide mouth and takes a thick shaving.

Keep your Record as a smoother.

So, you then need something longer for table tops or bookcase frames. A No 7 is good but dear; a 5 1/2 is a really useful all rounder and would be enough for a minimal kit.

 

[custard]

The 5 1/2 or the 7 with a couple of spare irons will do everything on your list. The two together are more than adequate for real world cabinet making, although not nearly enough if your true passion is Ebay.

 

[Ttrees]

How wide of panels are you planning on working on ?
I would go for a 5 1/2 for the job if its wideish atall.
Don't need to close the mouth up on any bailey pattern plane.
It just makes it difficult to push, set the cap iron instead, for a better finish than even the tightest mouth can produce.
My plane used to heat up in front of the mouth when I did not set the cap iron properly and had the mouth closed up.

Tom

 

[D_W]

Wooden jack plane, wooden try plane (22" or longer), metal jointer and metal smoother. That'd be my choice.

 

[ED65]

If you go ahead with the plan to convert the no. 4 to a roughing plane/scrub plane you may not need to widen the mouth for it to work properly which will save you some time and effort. My roughing plane is a converted Stanley type 16 which has quite a narrow mouth by modern standards and it'll pass the thickest shavings I'm strong enough to create without a bother.

A jack, either a woodie or a no. 5, with a suitably cambered iron can be used for this job too and is quite traditional. Some find the added heft of a plane of this size useful for roughing work but on milder woods I really don't think it's necessary.

- Than For jointing large pieces I'm looking to purchase a no7

I don't think many need a 7 or even a plane of similar length, certainly many here don't have one and seem to get along fine without.

-And finally I need something for smoothing out and finishing Like a no3 or no4? I'm not really sure what kind of plane would be the best for this step or even if I need a smaller plane if I will already have a no5? what would you suggest?

You can use a 5 as a longer smoother if you like, more than a few members use their 5s in this way, but for my money something lighter is preferable. Often the scale of the work that you'll typically do is given as a reason to go smaller, but given the preference of some guys who do large-scale work to use a wee no. 3 I don't really think that argument stands up This is one of those things that's basically what the individual prefers.

If you do want your 5 to do double duty it's worth getting a spare iron set, not just a spare cutter, so you can swap the plane over from one function to another in no time at all.

-Also I plan to purchase an old record/stanley no80 cabinet scraper to almost replace my sander with so I need to sand as little as possible.

If you can get one cheaply go for it. but just to have it said, if you set up your smoothing plane properly the need for cabinet scrapers goes down by 95% or more.

 

[G S Haydon]

Based on 95% work with hand tools.

Wooden Jack & Wooden Try plane are your power planer & thicknesser

#4 as a smoother, #5 or #5 1/2 as an all rounder, #7 for refining long edges. The #7 would be the last purchase I'd make as you might feel hapy with the wooden try plane or the 5 1/2.

That's 5 planes in total. If you're going to use machines for preparing boards, you can omit the wooden planes.

As Andy said, think twice about changing the #4, not a great choice.

 

[heimlaga]

I also think you should ignore the trend and not convert a brilliant smoother into a barely mediocre scrub. I find that sort of downcykling to be wasteful beyond description because you will some day want a proper scrub and your barely mediocre conversion will be junked.
However....if it is a modern Indian made Record it will be useless anyway so then you can convert it without destroying anything.

-Get or make a cheap wooden scrub instead. It is by far the easiest plane to make for a beginner in planemaking or it can be bought secondhand for little money.
-Fix up your old cheap number 4 (if it is old). In my oppinion this is the ideal size for general purpose smoothing.
Number 3 is great for planing in more restricted space or planing upside down for instance inside a boat or maybe as a bench smoother for a very small and untrained woman or any partially disabled person.
The famed number 4 1/2 feels like it would be suitable for only the very strongest among men. Those who could shovel 25 tons of gravel a day or lift 80 litres of milk cans up onto a lorry bed time upon time at every stop the milk lorry made.
-Except the smoother and the scrub you will need a jointer of some sort. In my oppinion a number 7 is the ideal size for most of us. One of my friends owns a number 8 and I find it too big for an ordinary sized man.
Those are the three planes you need. 4 and 7 and a wooden scrub. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

If you want to expand further:
-Number 5 is cheap and plentiful and therefore I have two in my workshop. They costed nearly nothing so I can afford to just grip another plane instead of shifting the iron for different uses. Essentially number 5 and 6 excel at the same type of jobs so it is a matter of body size and personal taste which of them you prefere


-A block plane or two is nice to have.
A good standard block plane with adjustable mouth and standard blade angle and in standard size. This is the more important of the two
A low angle block plane for end grain.

-A rebate plane will one day be necsessary. I like the plain Stanley 78 and it's eqivalents from other makers. I think Record made the best version of it but they are hard to find.

-A router plane is often practical to have.

Then come a vast assortment of speciality planes. I should have over 40 different ones. Profile planes and the like.

 

[profchris]

I made a scrub from a wooden coffin smoother with a wide mouth (cheap at boot sales and the thick iron is good for scrubbing).

I have a no 80 scraper which I rarely used, though I'm keeping it. Excellent for hardwood, not good on softwood.

 

[Vann]

I think your list is as close as you'll get, until you've used them for a while. E.g. You won't know if you prefer a 3, 4 or 4.5 as a smoother until you've been smoothing for a while. Don't let that slow you down - you can always sell a plane and buy another size in the future.

But I agree with others - your Record No.4 will make a mediocre scrub, but might make a very good smoother.

I'd add a blockplane to your list.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[D_W]

I'm assuming that you guys who are talking about making scrubs from small planes are mostly using power tools for planing and jointing?

 

[ED65]

Just for balance, I don't think a converted no. 4 makes a barely adequate roughing plane... any more than a no. 5 fitted with a cambered iron makes a mediocre jack. That's not a direct comparison but it's not too far away either.

Gents, even if you do have to widen the mouth it doesn't have to be made cavernous. It only needs to be wide enough to allow the relatively thin standard iron to project and permit passage of the thickest shaving the typical person can create. So the one or at most two mills you have to open it up in no way ruins a plane. Remember there is zero consistency in the size of the mouths of no. 4s to begin with. While guys who love pre-WWI Stanleys might tell anyone who will listen how much the tight mouths of their planes give superior performance can you see any difference in the finished planed surfaces they create and those done with a 60s or 70s era Record as owned by many here?

So Friedrich, should you, or any future owner, want to convert your no. 4 back to standard plane duties you just need to regrind the iron straight or drop in a spare one and you're back in business. The wider mouth won't make the slightest difference to how the plane performs in almost all circumstances.

 

[D_W]

A little wider is ok, but more than a 16th or so mouth makes a plane that's no longer suitable to put a chamfer on small things, and a little wider yet makes a plane that can catch at the start of a stroke. Wooden jack planes are a dime a dozen over there and are miles ahead for this kind of work.

It's not that you can't use a converted 4, it's just that it's not as good as a wooden jack.

 

[custard]

Live edge furniture in the Nakashima style is a lifeline that keeps many independent furniture makers afloat. There's an insatiable demand and yet the totally unique nature of each timber slab means high street manufacturers can't compete. So each year I'll make a fair few items like this one,

Live edge tops are too big to process with my machinery, and yet they need flattening pretty accurately because they're often used as desks, and a rocking keyboard is unacceptable. Consequently I surface these monsters by hand with bench planes. A wooden jack is the best tool for the heavy stock removal, I don't find the need for a scrub. Here's the Bubinga top from the last photo early in the surfacing process,

I like the wooden jack because I'm flattening these tops low down on trestles. Any wooden bench plane gives you a few extra inches of height and therefore spares your back. My workbench top is pretty high to begin with, I don't therefore use wooden bench planes on my workbench because I can't get my body weight into the stroke, on my bench it's arm strength only, and that's just too tiring for a big job.

Andy nailed it earlier when he said you don't need a scrub unless you're riving your own wood, I can see where he's coming from with that statement. Personally I'd go further, you don't even need a jack plane unless you're processing several cubic feet of timber each year entirely with hand tools, and the number of people on this forum who fall into that category could be counted on the fingers of one hand! Which is why I said earlier a 5 1/2 and a 7 are the only bench planes you need (and I only included the 7 because the OP mentioned 7' long boards).

There's nothing wrong with collecting tools or even assembling a tool kit as some kind of theoretical exercise. But if you intend to actually make stuff then too many tools is as big a problem as too few tools, they all need fettling and sharpening, they take up bench space, and the more you spread your usage across many tools the less proficient you'll become with any of them.

And don't forget, if your ambition is making furniture then bench planes aren't the only planes you'll need. You'll need a low angle block plane, a couple of spokeshaves, a shoulder plane (and good shoulder planes aren't cheap), a router plane (preferably a large one and a small one), and you'll probably find before long that you want some more specialised planes like a plough plane or a side rebate plane. If you fill your tool shelves or tool chest with bench planes then you won't have room or money for this other stuff.

 

[Friedrich]

Sir, that's a beautiful table!