Which band saw, which dust extractor?

[Trainee neophyte]

Much to my suprise, I am suddenly in the market for a band saw, and I don't have ANY dust extraction yet. Because Axminster offer free delivery to Greece, their Craft AC1950 @ £400 seems to be about the level I could justify. However, all their dust extraction kit looks insanely expensive, and whilst not dying is a good thing, dust extraction per se doesn't actually make things, so I want to go cheap.

Two simple questions for the perenial "which band saw" problem: will I be disappointed with the Axminster offering (and should I look at something else instead?). I want to do clever boxes and fun toys (a la Sunny Bob), but the main work will be turning lumps of olive wood into usable stock - some in the green, but mostly well seasoned, and hard as iron.

Secondly, which dust extractor would work best with a band saw, and/or table saw,and the usual hand held stuff, and be priced at under £200? This is just hobby sized kit - it's not my day job, so I have no problem with swapping things about and running only one machine at a time. Would a wet/dry vac be a complete fail? Whilst I can spend £200 if I must, £60 for a shop vac looks much more palatable, because I can buy more toys to add to the Axminster order (have my eye on the sliding table kit, but don't tell anyone).

I am really sorry to rework this question yet again - it seems that which band saw is the most asked question here, after sharpening.

 

[sunnybob]

Youre not going to be happy with a 5" depth bandsaw if you want to chop up tree trunks for boxes and turning blanks.. :roll: :roll:
bandsaw boxes are cut out on , guess what, the bandsaw, that machine would only allow you a less than 5" deep box. 'taint enough boy, 'taint enough :lol:
My 350 can cut right up to 8" depth.

Extraction systems dont need to be a stupid price. After 5 years of building and rebuilding my extraction system because I had no money in the first place, I know these things. I suggest finding something like the SIP 01929 with 4 inch inlet. (wish I hadnt replaced mine in an unsuccessful "upgrade")
Use 4" HVAC ducting and fittings from your nearest plumbers merchants.
make your own blast gates from plywood (utube is your friend) and finally some 4" flexible hose to connect the bits together.
Then you can "discover" a road traffic cone and build your own cyclone (the really heavy ones are better, the flimsy ones collapse :shock: :lol:

Yes I know, that comes in at double your budget. But tell me, in all the building projects you have ever seen, houses , cars, mobile homes, golf clubs, have you EVER seen a happy man who has come in on budget?
NO.
Spend cheap, spend twice. I know, Ive done it, and I'm offering you the chance not to. 8) 8) 8) 8)

PS, Winter is here :shock: outside temp this morning is a single digit :roll: :roll:
Central heating goes on tonight, and I'm going to have to get my jeans out of the bottom drawer.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Youre not going to be happy with a 5" depth bandsaw if you want to chop up tree trunks for boxes and turning blanks.. :roll: :roll:
bandsaw boxes are cut out on , guess what, the bandsaw, that machine would only allow you a less than 5" deep box. 'taint enough boy, 'taint enough :lol:
My 350 can cut right up to 8" depth.

Extraction systems dont need to be a stupid price. After 5 years of building and rebuilding my extraction system because I had no money in the first place, I know these things. I suggest finding something like the SIP 01929 with 4 inch inlet. (wish I hadnt replaced mine in an unsuccessful "upgrade")
Use 4" HVAC ducting and fittings from your nearest plumbers merchants.
make your own blast gates from plywood (utube is your friend) and finally some 4" flexible hose to connect the bits together.
Then you can "discover" a road traffic cone and build your own cyclone (the really heavy ones are better, the flimsy ones collapse :shock: :lol:

Yes I know, that comes in at double your budget. But tell me, in all the building projects you have ever seen, houses , cars, mobile homes, golf clubs, have you EVER seen a happy man who has come in on budget?
NO.
Spend cheap, spend twice. I know, Ive done it, and I'm offering you the chance not to. 8) 8) 8) 8)

PS, Winter is here :shock: outside temp this morning is a single digit :roll: :roll:
Central heating goes on tonight, and I'm going to have to get my jeans out of the bottom drawer.

Currently il pleut, hence my ability to post. We have been lighting fires for a week (house down to 22°, which should be illegal), but it's still 20 degrees outside during the day. Freezing, in other words. I even put on a jumper the other day!

So I need an 8" saw, to play with the big boys. You're not wrong. Axminster says £770, plus inevitable extras. Can't afford one, I don't think. Damn! Still, thank you for stopping me from making a rash decision in haste.

Anyone know any BIG bandsaws around the £400 mark? I'll happily take second hand if we can work out postage...it would seem that I am poor, and have insufficient funds for my new hobby. Go big or go home.

Edit: dust extractor thingy looks good, and the price is more what I had in mind - I also happen to be the owner of several 200litre industrial blue plastic barrels - I'm sure something fun could be cobbled together in the fullness of time.

 

[sunnybob]

OI!! Whats the idea of living in Greece and speaking French? I'll have the police onto you. ( cant spell astounomia) :lol:

I've been where you are. When I started this hobby I bought a small cheap bandsaw and regretted it and fought it for well over a year. All that wasted time. It almost turned me away from the hobby altogether.
My 350 can do almost anything .

I know its a lot, but at least you get free shipping. TNT wont recognise Cyprus as being in the EU and I had a to pay another 100 quid on top. It was worth it. I dont expect to ever have to buy another.

That sip is a magic extractor. Ignore all advertising about cant do this or that. It even sucked up a wall paper scraper once, only the wide blade stopped it going through the 2 1/2" tube. It is very noisy though. I built an MDF cabinet and covered the inside with old blanket, which cut the decibels by at least half.
I have 2 1/2" ducting (again because it was cheaper) and although its quite good, I would like to go to 4", but am stopped now because my workshop is only a 3 x 5 metre space and all the machines are now set in place and there just isnt room without a complete strip out and start again.
I get round the problem by working with the roll up door open.

Daytime temps are still good, mid 20's, but oh boy does the thermometer drop with the sun. 8)

 

[Lons]

Daytime temps are still good, mid 20's, but oh boy does the thermometer drop with the sun. 8)

Ya big softie Bob :wink:
Managed to get to lovely warm 3c here yesterday but that was only for about an hour or so.

 

[Steve Maskery]

This may seem like heresy, but...
I have a big BS and the DX on it is useless. A 4" outlet is for use with a LPHV extractor, but the outlet is so far from the action that it is very ineffective. Dust from a bandsaw blade is usually not so fine that it gets airborne so it tends to accumulate inside the saw. I just vac mine out now and again. The same is true for my TS.

Routers, tracksaws, SCMS and sanders are a very different kettle of fish. They use HPLV extraction, you can get right up to the place where it is produced, which is a good job, as the sawdust is much finer and does get airborne.

If it were me, I'd buy the best BS I could afford and either jury-rig a cheap shop-vac as close to under the cut as I could manage or do without altogether and live with the mess, it is reasonably contained. It would be a shame to spend a large part of your budget on a DX that is not very efficacious.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

This may seem like heresy, but...
I have a big BS and the DX on it is useless. A 4" outlet is for use with a LPHV extractor, but the outlet is so far from the action that it is very ineffective. Dust from a bandsaw blade is usually not so fine that it gets airborne so it tends to accumulate inside the saw. I just vac mine out now and again. The same is true for my TS.

Routers, tracksaws, SCMS and sanders are a very different kettle of fish. They use HPLV extraction, you can get right up to the place where it is produced, which is a good job, as the sawdust is much finer and does get airborne.

If it were me, I'd buy the best BS I could afford and either jury-rig a cheap shop-vac as close to under the cut as I could manage or do without altogether and live with the mess, it is reasonably contained. It would be a shame to spend a large part of your budget on a DX that is not very efficacious.

I currently have no dust control whatsoever, and the inference here was that I would catch cancer by Tuesday, unless I got some pdq. If, as you say, it doesn't really work that well with a bandsaw, then a vacuum cleaner could be the way forward, coupled with my best Darth Vader impersonation.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

OI!! Whats the idea of living in Greece and speaking French? I'll have the police onto you. ( cant spell astounomia) :lol:

I've been where you are. When I started this hobby I bought a small cheap bandsaw and regretted it and fought it for well over a year. All that wasted time. It almost turned me away from the hobby altogether.
My 350 can do almost anything .

I know its a lot, but at least you get free shipping. TNT wont recognise Cyprus as being in the EU and I had a to pay another 100 quid on top. It was worth it. I dont expect to ever have to buy another.

That sip is a magic extractor. Ignore all advertising about cant do this or that. It even sucked up a wall paper scraper once, only the wide blade stopped it going through the 2 1/2" tube. It is very noisy though. I built an MDF cabinet and covered the inside with old blanket, which cut the decibels by at least half.
I have 2 1/2" ducting (again because it was cheaper) and although its quite good, I would like to go to 4", but am stopped now because my workshop is only a 3 x 5 metre space and all the machines are now set in place and there just isnt room without a complete strip out and start again.
I get round the problem by working with the roll up door open.

Daytime temps are still good, mid 20's, but oh boy does the thermometer drop with the sun. 8)

I have a French guest currently, hence the froggy lingo, and if I wrote in Greek, no one would understand to appreciate my subtle humour.

Unfortunately, the chief financial officer has just asked why I haven't place the Axminster order yet, and after discussion, she hit the roof over £800 for a tool. I may have to do some chores to get on her good side - fix the window, repair the bathroom door, that sort of thing. Or not fix them, because I need the bandsaw...

 

[sunnybob]

I have trodden this road... The axminster 350 bandsaw dust extraction points were designed by someone with limitless money to spend on enough machinery to make an airplane wind tunnel, but not enough sense to cross the road unaided.
as it arrives at your doorstep, it aint worth (I'll save the site censor and just type CARP).

I had a long conversation with axminster, including videos from and to. This got so heated they "said" they would incorporate my improvements (of course they didnt) but they did have to re write their catalogue to insist it needed 2 x 4" hoses, which was not mentioned when I bought it.
I'm not one to whinge outside the office door but be too scared to tell 'tmanagment about real life (hammer) (hammer) (hammer) 8)

The lower port (I use the term loosely) is 4" on the outside. Open the door, and inside, elfin safety realised some twonk could shove their hand through the 4" hole and stick it in the bottom wheel, so the boffins cure was to weld a bluuddy girt piece of mild steel across 3/4 of it. :shock: :roll: (hammer)
Outside = 4" (or 100 mm if you want)
Inside = possibly 3/4"
I did what it was fit for. I blocked it off completely.

The upper port (again, :lol: :lol: ) is a 4" down angled tube that when you open the door..... is sucking anything that can actually force its way through the 2" x 1/2" wide slot that the blade uses. (hammer) (hammer) (hammer)

Below the table (surprise surprise) where all the dust really is, is a complicated aluminium blade guard that kind of, almost gently, shuffles the dust somewhere towards that tiny slit that is the only way to get to those TWO honking great 4 pipes. (hammer) (hammer)

I did the sensible thing here, I threw the ali into the scrap bin. I cut a 3" hole through the top of the plastic down angled adaptor, and made a little box surrounding the entire lower section, syphoning it all through into the hose. Some still gets through into the lower box, but that only needs a quick vacuuming every few months. Apart from what lays on the table top, no dust.

If I want to tilt the table I just pull away the little 3 mm ply box and accept i will have to vacuum the floor. That has happened maybe three times in the last three years.

Since starting with woodworking machinery, I have had to learn about the lack of chinese quality control (oh boy, have I). But if you can adapt and overcome, the machines can be made fit for purpose.

Regarding financing..... little and often does the trick. In the Uk I used to repair catering machinery, specialising in fast foods (KFC mcdonalds, piza hut etc etc0 those machines were expensive. I had many one man band operators as well, and they all complained loud and long over the price of parts that had to be shipped from america, import duty, vat, BEFORE we made a profit.

One shop in Bristol, had the right idea. he never complained when I gave him a bill. I mentioned this one day, and his answer was; I earn a living on those machines, without them I'm broke, so i put away a fiver per machine every week, just to pay for repairs. on his weekly turnover of many thousands, he was only putting away less than a 100, but he never had to worry about paying for stuff.

Youve got 400 now, DO NOT give it back. Hide it, put another tenner a week away with it. Instead of a bottle of wine or beer, stash it. Take money for xmas and birthdays presents. If youre a smoker, Dont whinge to me about being broke (hammer) (hammer) 8) 8) 8)
Show her my stuff from my sig link, including the piggy bank, and the butterfly. I could have sold HER butterfly a dozen times over, for a quite serious lump of money, but whats the point of money after the mrs has removed my gender specific articles and used them to feed the rats and snakes. :shock:
Tell her what youll make for her once youre set up 8)

 

[sunnybob]

Damn! I think thats the longest I've ever typed. must be nearly an hour to do that. I'm off for a tea break, which just might include alcohol, but will definitely not include tea. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[samhay]

I have an old Inca bandsaw, with about 6" depth of cut. It doesn't quite manage everything I would like, but covers most bases and is nicely compact. 8+" depth of cut would be nice, but in my case would probably not fit in my shed and it would come with compromises elsewhere.

Axminster's 320 mm (wheel size) hobby bandsaw will do 175mm/7". It's £520. The 370mm size will do 200mm and is £620. Record's similar offerings will strangely offer similar specs for similar cost and it looks like Amazon will ship a Record BS to Greece for about £40. Will defer to sunnybob's experience on that matter though.

What am I trying to say? Yes, bigger will be useful. Sometimes. But there is a sweet spot of capacity, price and space requirements. Or, what do you want to build, how much room do you have and how much do you value you marriage/living arrangements? Somewhere there lies the answer. In the longer term, if you have the room the answer may be to own two bandsaws - bet your other half will love that idea - with a smaller machine dedicated to doing small jobs and a larger machine doing resawing.

+1 for making do with a shop vac for a bandsaw this size. Dust collection will not be perfect with any hobby-size dust extractor, so get used to cleaning up after yourself.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I have an old Inca bandsaw, with about 6" depth of cut. It doesn't quite manage everything I would like, but covers most bases and is nicely compact. 8+" depth of cut would be nice, but in my case would probably not fit in my shed and it would come with compromises elsewhere.

Axminster's 320 mm (wheel size) hobby bandsaw will do 175mm/7". It's £520. The 370mm size will do 200mm and is £620. Record's similar offerings will strangely offer similar specs for similar cost and it looks like Amazon will ship a Record BS to Greece for about £40. Will defer to sunnybob's experience on that matter though.

What am I trying to say? Yes, bigger will be useful. Sometimes. But there is a sweet spot of capacity, price and space requirements. Or, what do you want to build, how much room do you have and how much do you value you marriage/living arrangements? Somewhere there lies the answer. In the longer term, if you have the room the answer may be to own two bandsaws - bet your other half will love that idea - with a smaller machine dedicated to doing small jobs and a larger machine doing resawing.

+1 for making do with a shop vac for a bandsaw this size. Dust collection will not be perfect with any hobby-size dust extractor, so get used to cleaning up after yourself.

Thank you. It's not the cash per se, but the sudden shock of doubling a budget that had already escalated more than "necessary". I am avoiding Record Power, on the possibly mistaken understanding that the last thing they do at the factory before shipping goods is to play football with the boxed kit, to make sure everything is nicely broken inside. It wouldn't be a problem if I lived in the UK, but I can forsee issues not being resolved. On that basis, Axminster is probably the safer bet.

As I have an almost infinite supply of olive wood available, it seems silly not to get a saw that will make the most of it. What little work I have done so far with it confirms that I need a bandsaw to get the best from it - a chainsaw just can't make inroads on seasoned wood. I either need to bite the bullet, or not bother. The compromise would be to get the 7" saw, but it's "only" saving £100, which is a tank of fuel for the truck. Not going to make a difference to life as we know it, but will make a difference in the stock I can create out of what is currently firewood. As I have just saved £50 on the dust extraction, it is only costing me £50 extra to buy the £800 saw. And that, lades and gentlemen, is the ancient art of logic, Greek style. Socrates knew a thing or two about justifying his tool collection to the wife. If you don't hear from me again, you know it didn't work.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Damn! I think thats the longest I've ever typed. must be nearly an hour to do that. I'm off for a tea break, which just might include alcohol, but will definitely not include tea. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

A heartbreaking work of staggering genius. Thank you for your time, as well as advice. Just wait until I finally buy one of these saws - I'll be annoying you constantly for tips and tricks. You may want to change your account name now, in anticipation.

(I stole the quote from this: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/495 ... ing_Genius it was a booker prize nomination, I believe - your essay disserves similar recognition)

 

[ScaredyCat]

How about use a Airshield Pro for your PPE instead of dust extraction. You could even use it whilst you clean up all that dust n stuff.


.

 

[MikeJhn]

With reference to your olive wood, I was very surprised by your statement "a chainsaw just can't make inroads on seasoned wood." ? care to elaborate, serious question.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

How about use a Airshield Pro for your PPE instead of dust extraction. You could even use it whilst you clean up all that dust n stuff.


.

Not the worst idea, as I do a lot of agricultural spraying, and whilst my current mask stops me breathing unpleasantness, I do get the odd face-full of evil chemicals. Everything else is covered, except around eyes and forehead. I'm definitely thinking about one. My only worry is that it might scare the tortoise currently hibernating somewhere in the shed.

 

[MikeJhn]

When I am wearing mine the local French children call me "Daft Ada", but I only have to start my extract system and they run away, if will take small children and dogs, don't know about Tortoise though they would probably chip the blades of the extract fan and put it out of balance. #-o

Seriously though, the AirShield Pro is a very worthwhile investment, my workshop is in the South of France where it can get to 40deg's and over during the summer, the forced air that the AirShield provides down the front of the face is very refreshing, highly recommended. =D>

 

[Trainee neophyte]

With reference to your olive wood, I was very surprised by your statement "a chainsaw just can't make inroads on seasoned wood." ? care to elaborate, serious question.

Fresh olive cuts like butter, as you would expect, but once it has spent a couple of years in the logpile drying out (and at 40 ° it is properly dry) it takes on a consistency of rock. A brand new chain will do the job, but slowly, and it won't be new afterwards. One of the big problems is that olive wood is all knots and elbows, because of the endless pruning. It is fabulously pretty once you have sliced it up, but it can be very, very hard going to get the saw through it.

Dry almond wood is worse - I have heard stories about it catching fire during sawing, but never seen it myself. I have scrapped a chain on an almond log, so I can confirm it is pretty hard.

Here's one I made earlier:

 

[Trainee neophyte]

When I am wearing mine the local French children call me "Daft Ada", but I only have to start my extract system and they run away, if will take small children and dogs, don't know about Tortoise though they would probably chip the blades of the extract fan and put it out of balance. #-o

Seriously though, the AirShield Pro is a very worthwhile investment, my workshop is in the South of France where it can get to 40deg's and over during the summer, the forced air that the AirShield provides down the front of the face is very refreshing, highly recommended. =D>

It is the idea of having a soothing breeze whilst I am sprinting around zapping trees that appeals the most. It can be in the high thirties when I have to spray - my least favourite job.

 

[MikeJhn]

That is beautifully figured, too good to hide inside a bandsaw box and too figured to be on the outside IMO it would detract from the box profile if it was profiled that it, but thinking about it further using it as a lid or side of a jewellery box would look amazing, or the top of a wine table, or coffee table, OH the decisions are endless, I only have access to well seasoned Oak and am very jealous. :mrgreen: